Low Blood Glucose?

[Paleowoman]

For the past month, I've overindulged in fruit so I decided to try no fruit on most days and only one serving on days I decide to have it. Yesterday I went cold turkey with no fruit. My fasting glucose this morning was 58 -- much lower, about 20 points lower than when I was eating a lot of fruit. I had some black coffee and went for a long walk but felt rather woozy. I then ate a late breakfast of lamb chops (I put a few tablespoons of cinnamon on the lambchops -- sounds gross, tastes great) with 1/2 cup of blueberries plus green tea. I still felt very tired and went for a nap. Woke up and felt hungry and tired so I had a hard boiled egg and some pemmican (meat, suet, salt). I ate about 15 minutes ago and felt a bit better -- tested my blood glucose and it was only 77. Thoughts???

[Mitra]

I don't know that I'll be able to offer any explanation, but I'd be interested to know roughly how many grammes of carb you'd typically eat on a fruit-eating day and a non-fruit-eating day. And, you mentioned that you'd been overeating fruit for the last month. Did you have this sort of problem in the past on fruit-free days, or does it seem to be a reaction to the sudden change?

[Paleowoman]

I don't know that I'll be able to offer any explanation, but I'd be interested to know roughly how many grammes of carb you'd typically eat on a fruit-eating day and a non-fruit-eating day. And, you mentioned that you'd been overeating fruit for the last month. Did you have this sort of problem in the past on fruit-free days, or does it seem to be a reaction to the sudden change?

I was really eating large amounts of lower sugar fruit ie plums, peaches, berries,cherries -- but I realize it adds up. This is the curse of being close to goal -- you think a little bit won't hurt and then it's more, more, more. URGH! :mad: My husband thinks the extreme fatigue is a reaction to the sudden change and I hope he's right. I feel so weak-willed having the 1/2 cup of blueberries today but I really felt so lousy and that it would help up my blood glucose. I'll still be under 20-30 grams of carbs if I have salad and greens with my supper. How long after a meal should one test their blood glucose? My husband doesn't think I waited long enough -- he says only carbs jump the sugar up -- fat and meat is a slower process -- he said to wait an hour or two after eating.

[Gaelen]

Paleowoman, the usual recommendation for testing BG after eating is to wait two hours.

You said your fasting BG on non-fruit days was 58, when it's more typically about 20 points higher? Going too low on fasting BG is also not good (as you're experiencing), but 78 is NOT a fasting BG that ANYone would/should be concerned about. And if you're under 30g ECC eating 1/2 cup of blueberries, what is the big deal about eating them? It would have been perfectly normal for paleolithic man (and woman) to eat fresh fruit during those times of year when it was bountiful. Why would you be hesitant to add some fruit to your diet, even if you're close to goal, as long as you're under 40g ECC per day?

[Paleowoman]

Paleowoman, the usual recommendation for testing BG after eating is to wait two hours.

You said your fasting BG on non-fruit days was 58, when it's more typically about 20 points higher? Going too low on fasting BG is also not good (as you're experiencing), but 78 is NOT a fasting BG that ANYone would/should be concerned about. And if you're under 30g ECC eating 1/2 cup of blueberries, what is the big deal about eating them? It would have been perfectly normal for paleolithic man (and woman) to eat fresh fruit during those times of year when it was bountiful. Why would you be hesitant to add some fruit to your diet, even if you're close to goal, as long as you're under 40g ECC per day?

I find that a little fruit tends to lead to more more more - CRAVINGS big time and then sleepiness. My horrified husband watched me put down 6 plums! And they weren't little!! :eek:

Also, I can't lose unless I'm under 30 carbs (I don't believe in the ECC stuff FOR ME) I just count straight carbs. I know this for me from experience. Fiber does nothing to satiate me. Nuts are high in fiber but I can easily down an entire bag/jar of macadamias or almonds. Ditto for broccoli and high fiber veggies -- Fiber does not satiate me. I also think that maybe because I'm so short -- that I simply cannot handle nor need as many carbs as taller people. Phinney for example climbs mountains (I climb my couch:p !) and he's a taller man -- yet he eats under 50 carbs per day.

My family history (genetics) worries me regards to diabetes: my father was a THIN type 2 (but like me, a binge type eater); my mother was an obese (300 pounds ) type 2 and my only sibling is an obese type 2. :(

[cmcole]

I also think that maybe because I'm so short -- that I simply cannot handle nor need as many carbs as taller people.

I'm starting to think the same. I've tried to limit my carbs to under 40 per day, until recently, when I started making shakes. Now, I'm needing to get back to really thinking about what gets in my mouth, and forget the snacking on nuts and things, as well. Carbs are sneaky little things, and I think that's why I've been wanting to fall asleep in the afternoons (that was just my ureka moment as I wrote this).

[Gaelen]

I find that a little fruit tends to lead to more more more - CRAVINGS big time and then sleepiness. My horrified husband watched me put down 6 plums! And they weren't little!! :eek:

Paleowoman, there's a problem in that eating pattern...and it's not that you've included some fruit in your diet. Later in your post you call yourself a 'binge eater.' That's not about how many carbs you eat, it's about how you approach food overall--and simply eliminating the item(s) on which you binge doesn't, as you may have noticed, resolve the problem. There is documented success at turning around attitudes toward food for people who make the effort to resolve the underlying mental health issue(s) which preciptate binge eating...and long-term, that might be a more balanced approach than just deciding you can't it fruit because it 'causes cravings.'

Also, I can't lose unless I'm under 30 carbs (I don't believe in the ECC stuff FOR ME) I just count straight carbs. I know this for me from experience. Fiber does nothing to satiate me. Nuts are high in fiber but I can easily down an entire bag/jar of macadamias or almonds. Ditto for broccoli and high fiber veggies -- Fiber does not satiate me.

'Fiber does nothing to satiate' you because fiber isn't *supposed* to satiate you. ;) I know, I've heard the 'fiber will fill you up' line a bajillion times, too, but you won't hear it here, and you won't hear it from the Drs. Eades. There's some difference of opinion about which is more effective--and to some extent, that also may depend on an individual's perceptions and genetics--but it's FAT and PROTEIN that are supposed to satiate you, not fiber. Don't expect one component of the diet to do another component's job, especially an indigestible component. ;)

What nuts can provide in the way of satiation they do by providing fat, and to a lesser degree, protein. The fiber they contain isn't expected to be satiating. However, the fact that you can binge on an 'entire bag/jar of macadamias or almonds' doesn't mean they're not valuable additions to your diet--it's a symptom of an issue you have with your approach to food and the kind of nuts that you're eating, and maybe the fact that you don't have to forage for your nuts except in your pantry. Are you equally likely to binge on say, untoasted or unroasted or unsalted nuts? raw pine nuts, which can be bitter? raw Brazil nuts, pecans, walnuts, hazelnuts in the shells, which you have to manually crack open with a nutcracker one at a time and pick out the meat from the shells in order to enjoy them? Is it easier to binge on macadamias and almonds because they're roasted, salted, and/or ready to eat by the handful from a jar? Perhaps the binge behavior could be turned around by addressing the behavioral element that's enabling you to binge--that the nuts you tend to binge on don't require any 'work' from you to get them beyond opening the jar. Well, okay, opening a macadamia nut jar CAN be a little work, but thanks to Joy Mangano and her jar openers, it's easier than it used to be. ;)

As for broccoli, that can go the same way. If someone else preps it for me, and all I have to do is heat it up in the microwave, I can binge on broccoli in sauce and eat three helpings (or, well, I could before my cancer surgery--now, not so much. Intestinal pain is a major incentive not to overindulge...)
But if you have to harvest it (or go buy it), chop it, cook it and also prepare the sauce, the time it takes to do that may be all you need to prevent you from a broccoli in cheese sauce or green goddess avocado dressing binge. YMMV.

I also think that maybe because I'm so short -- that I simply cannot handle nor need as many carbs as taller people. Phinney for example climbs mountains (I climb my couch:p !) and he's a taller man -- yet he eats under 50 carbs per day.

At the risk of sounding like Mr. Spock, the idea that the number of carbs you can eat is based only on how tall you are is...illogical. ;) Phinney may be taller than you are, but he's also, by your own admission, a heckuva lot more active than you are. If you are more active, you can usually eat more of ANYthing. If you have more lean body mass, you can usually eat more of anything. And depending on your genetics, you may also be able to tolerate more carbs. I am five feet tall, and currently have an LBM around 100 lbs--down a good 18 lbs. from when I was my fittest and most active. But even with all of the challenges to my metabolism that I've gotten in the last two and half years of cancer treatment, I can still eat up to 70-80g ECC per day and MAINTAIN. Before cancer treatment, I could lose while eating 45-55g ECC per day...and while I was pretty active, I don't climb mountains nor am I a competitive cyclist like Phinney. In the first year of cancer treatment, I could average over 100g ECC per day and *maintain.* What you ask of your body in terms of metabolic needs plays a huge card in determining how many effective carbs you can consume...and since fiber is typically not metabolized, there's no point in counting it.

As an aside from stuff in another thread...whenever someone brings up ultra-low carb as a long term lifestyle solution, they usually bring up the Inuits...and for some reason that passes understanding, they never pay much attention to the fact that the Inuits live in a climate where seriously cold temperatures are the rule rather than the exception, and the non-westernized society was FAR more active than the average modern resident of more temperate climates. Cold temperatures require more from a non-hibernating metabolism just to maintain body heat. Activity requires more from the metabolism than standing still. IMO, we can't hold up the Inuit as dietary examples unless we also model their life conditions--and their activity levels. YMMV.

My family history (genetics) worries me regards to diabetes: my father was a THIN type 2 (but like me, a binge type eater); my mother was an obese (300 pounds ) type 2 and my only sibling is an obese type 2. :(

Paleowoman...it's good to be proactive when you've got that kind of family history, but there is such a thing as blood glucose that is too low for healthy metabolism. Check out this link, posted in the Challenges to Wellness forum where this has also been discussed:
http://www.medicinenet.com/hypoglycemia/page2.htm

The 'binge type eater' designation you give your dad, and yourself, and low activity, and the fact that you don't have to work as hard as your ancestors for your food choices, may have more to do with the issues you have with food in general and carbs in particular than anything else you've mentioned.

[Reverie]

Hi Paleowoman: we must be related! My family tends to overeat and several of us have Type 2. Here are my thoughts in avoiding hypoglycemia.

Eat smaller meals more frequently and try never to overeat. Carry the individually wrapped string cheese, nuts, bran-a-crisp, etc with you. You can also carry something like SweeTarts for really low hypos. Or you can get glucose tablets.

I think drinking too much black coffee without eating between breakfast and lunch can make blood sugar go low. My dad always drank too much coffee and then midmorning he had to have a donut!

Can you try to eat your fruit with fat? Heavy cream goes very well with peaches and raspberries.

You may want to avoid fruit most of the time. Dr. Richard K. Bernstein (a type 1 diabetic) lives just fine without it and I have pretty much given it up on a daily basis. I think he explains that fructose makes the blood sugar rise unpredictably. I eat red peppers, avocado, onion, olives, mushrooms and lots of green veggies for my carbs.

I would highly recommend Dr. Bernstein’s book, Diabetes Solution for more specifics about pre-diabetes, diabetes, and hypoglycemia. You are very smart to pay attention to your blood sugar so that you don’t get type 2 too soon