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cmcole
08-08-2006, 07:17 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060807.wsatfatnew0807/BNStory/specialScienceandHealth/home

Not sure I agree, but for your reading "pleasure"


Just one high-saturated fat meal can be bad for arteries, study says


Associated Press

CLEVELAND — Eating just one meal high in saturated fat — in this case, carrot cake and a milkshake — can quickly prevent “good” cholesterol from protecting the body against clogged arteries, a small study shows.
The results of the research weren't a surprise to the experts, but they say the findings reaffirm something that more people need to understand:
“What we put into our mouth makes a big difference in terms of our health,” said Dr. Charles McCauley, a cardiologist with Marshfield Clinic in Wisconsin, who reviewed the research but wasn't involved with the study. “We really have to be very careful as to how our food is processed and what kind of ingredients we use.”
In the study, at The Heart Research Institute in Sydney, Australia, 14 people, ages 18-40, ate two meals of carrot cake and a milkshake one month apart. One meal was high in saturated fat — using coconut oil — and the other was high in polyunsaturated fat — using safflower oil.

Saturated fat has long been linked to the buildup of plaque that can lead to heart attacks and strokes. HDL, the “good” cholesterol, protects arteries from the inflammation that leads to artery-clogging plaques. And plaque hurts the ability of arteries to expand to carry blood to tissues and organs.
The researchers, led by Dr. Stephen Nicholls, a cardiologist now at the Cleveland Clinic, found that three hours after eating the saturated-fat cake and shake, the lining of the arteries was hindered from expanding to increase blood flow. And after six hours, the anti-inflammatory qualities of the good cholesterol were reduced.
But the polyunsaturated meal seemed to improve those anti-inflammatory qualities. Also, fewer inflammatory agents were found in the arteries than before the meal.
“They're looking at things in terms of real live living,” said Dr. McCauley. “Carrot cake. How more real does that get?”
The study appears in the Aug. 15 issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
“It's a simple study. Sometimes the best studies are those that are very straightforward,” said Dr. Richard Milani, head of preventive cardiology at Ochsner Clinic Foundation in New Orleans.
He notes that the research isn't suggesting that people eat a steady diet of carrot cake and milkshakes.
However, he said, “given a choice between something with polyunsaturated fat and saturated fat, please avoid the saturated fat.”
Dr. Nicholls said “the take-home, public-health message is this: It's further evidence to support the need to aggressively reduce the amount of saturated fat consumed in the diet.”
Saturated fats are found mostly in food from animals, including beef, pork, lard, poultry fat, butter, milk and cheeses, and some plants, including coconut oil, palm oil and cocoa butter.
Polyunsaturated fats are found in oils from plants, including safflower, sesame and sunflower seeds, corn and soybeans, many nuts and seeds.
Dr. James O'Keefe, a cardiologist at the Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City, said Nicholls' study shows “a really important concept — when you eat the wrong types of food, inflammation and damage to the vessels happens immediately afterward.”
Too many people simply are eating the wrong kind of fats, Dr. O'Keefe said.
“Even one meal of a double cheeseburger with fries and a Coke will mess up your system, let alone a steady diet of it, which is recipe for disaster,” Dr. O'Keefe said.

mcsblues
08-08-2006, 08:28 AM
I suspect this might attract the Eades attention but the paper is not on the JACC website yet.

One thing that strikes me is I can't recall ever considering a piece of carrot cake and a milkshake to be a meal, let alone "real live living":rolleyes: and it just seems like Martian food now!

I guess the question is how much of the supposed harmful effects of saturated fat are tied up with eating high carbs at the same time, and what changes when this isn't the case.

cmcole
08-08-2006, 09:38 AM
I was thinking a similar thought, especially with the highlighted area - the cheeseburger AND fries.

No matter the saturated fat - all the items they were consuming were HIGH CARB!!

Kathy
08-08-2006, 01:11 PM
What kind of coconut oil was it? The hydrogenated kind?

What about the 100+ grams of sugar and god knows how many carbs they ingested? wouldn't that cause inflammation?

Another stupid study with predictably stupid and useless results. :rolleyes:

LisaS
08-08-2006, 01:23 PM
since they held the sugar content constant and only varied the type of fat,they are concluding that any differences in inflammatory effect are caused solely by the type of fat used.

mscblues makes a good point - this study of high carb + high sat fat may be both perfectly valid and totally irrelevant to lc eating

the question that effects us LC folks is the same test with a low-carb meal - is there a significant difference using sat fat vs. polyunsat fat?

Ottawa
08-08-2006, 01:41 PM
I'm not sure why or where the data comes from but I have read a few articles claiming that saturated fat tends to store more easily. The one below comes from Men's Health but I have seen others and would like to know what the rebuttal is, or what this statement is grounded on ...

"In a way, saturated fats and trans fats are partners -- they're both more likely to be stored than to be burned. While your body likes to burn some kinds of fats as energy, it would rather save saturated fats around your belly and use them for energy at a future date when food sources are scarce."

I see the dangers in Trans fats quite easily but saturated fat is a natural fat (with more of it around in meats due more corn and grain vs. grazing for food) but how would saturated fat be more prone to become visceral fat than other fats?

mcsblues
08-08-2006, 08:25 PM
It is now online - can anyone get the full text?

http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/abstract/48/4/715

deirdra
08-09-2006, 12:27 AM
I'm not sure why or where the data comes from but I have read a few articles claiming that saturated fat tends to store more easily. The one below comes from Men's Health but I have seen others and would like to know what the rebuttal is, or what this statement is grounded on ... "In a way, saturated fats and trans fats are partners -- they're both more likely to be stored than to be burned. While your body likes to burn some kinds of fats as energy, it would rather save saturated fats around your belly and use them for energy at a future date when food sources are scarce."It may just be one of those things "they" make up and repeat until everyone believes it is true. Theoretically a saturated molecule could be 1) harder to store because the molecule is bigger, or 2) harder to burn/breakdown because it is saturated (no free electrons), or 3) both and therefore more likely to be excreted (this happens in celiacs with damaged intestinal walls and is why their stools float).

We know from our pre-PP experience that eating (any kind of) fat+high carb makes fat easier to store and LESS likely to be burned, however, I got obese eating a diet that was vegetarian & sometimes vegan, on little to no saturated fat, so all/most of what was stored had to be unsaturated.

On VLC, ketones mean fat is being BURNED, and DANDR's summary of work by Keckwick & Pavan indicates that on <10% carbs w/90% fat/protein, the excess calories eaten don't add up to expected storage of fat calculated by the 3500cals/lb, so they must be burned or excreted. And newer studies (e.g. at Cornell) also show the thermogenetic advantage of LC. So the saturated->storage idea may be true for the typical American diet, but I don't think it pertains to the LC WOE. I'm eating 65% fat now, and lots of it is saturated, but am not storing the saturated or the unsaturated.

The original molecular structure of hydrocarbons can be determined from fragments found in rocks even 350my later, so this should be easier (except for the smell!) to do on stools of present day humans & probably has been done, though perhaps not in an ideal fashion. Knowing what % of each type of fat went in and what came out would answer your question (but we'd also want to see HC vs LC diets tested). If it has been done, it was probably on 18-22 year old male university students of normal weight eating the standard American diet.

mcsblues
08-09-2006, 01:26 AM
The Kekwick & Pawan study is widely thought to be flawed both in execution (compliance) and because subsequent studies attempting to duplicate it discovered that over longer time frames the intial advantage of a low carb diet is not sustained.

http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/full/9/suppl_1/5S

As I have said before, I'd love to see a well constructed and controlled study which would accurately measure things like faecal loss in respect of macronutrient intake (and types of fat consumed).

I'd guess the only way this will ever be done is if the Atkins Foundation funds the considerable expense of conducting such a trial.

As for 'floating stools' :eek: - way back I recall being told this was a sign of (low fat) good health as it was indicative of a high fibre diet! ;)

deirdra
08-09-2006, 01:56 AM
It is now online - can anyone get the full text?
http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/abstract/48/4/715 Yes, just glanced at it. The "meal" is carrot cake & a milkshake with the fat in them. All safflower oil in the first meal, and the saturated fat in the second meal is coconut oil. The subjects were 14 (8 male, 6 female) healthy 18-40 yr olds in Sydney with no cardiac problems. And their blood was drawn before the meal (fasting), 3 & 6 hrs later. So it was a small and short-term study.

Mitra
08-09-2006, 03:29 AM
Dr Mike's latest blog entry says that he's going to tackle this one next :cool:.

mcsblues
08-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Told you so!:)

Like he says ... don't believe anything else.

kevindill
08-10-2006, 01:54 PM
I've read many different opnions and scientific papers on saturated fat vs unsaturated fat, and what I have come to conclude is that Sat Fat is niether good nor bad. It is the over all compositon of your diet that determines whether sat fat causes problems or not. Med to High carb plus High SFA intake is bad. Low or reduced carb plus Moderate SFA is ok. In the never ending Ornish vs Atkins debate, what I feel is a logical conclusion, given both the low carb and low fat success (yes there have been a few), is that there needs to be a inverse relationship between fat and carbs.

Regards,
KD

Mitra
08-11-2006, 03:49 AM
It looks as if Regina Wilshire (http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2006/08/step-away-from-burger-and-no-one-will.html) got there first. But Dr Mike promises to get to it today :D.

Mitra
08-15-2006, 04:38 AM
For those who don't visit his blog regularly, Dr Mike has posted his response to this study: Saturated Fat Study Sucks (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/archives/2006/08/saturated_fat_s.html) (the title might give a hint about his views ;) )

Viking Dan
08-15-2006, 07:08 PM
Here's Anthony Colpo's take on it: http://theomnivore.com/One_High-Saturated_Fat_Meal%20.html

Ottawa
08-17-2006, 02:31 PM
CBC Radio ran an interesting set of talks on "IDEAS" ... It ran the summer of last year and covered Lipids and Saturated Fat, Statins and their usefullness, and Medical Procedures for the heart. Each of these broadcasts take apart teh common myths associated with them.

THE HEART OF THE MATTER, Heart disease was the biggest pandemic of the twentieth century and remains the number one killer in developed countries. Yet there is still no consensus about its cause. Cholesterol is the number one suspect, and cholesterol lowering diets and drugs, the treatments of choice. But there is growing dissent. Jill Eisen explores the history and politics surrounding our ideas about heart disease.

The three 53 minute shows debunk a lot of the Saturated Fat issues using studies and research material and some of the reasons behind the push. Jill EIsen is a jounalist with CBC that has covered other medical and social issues as well (Addictions, Future of Organic Foods, Questionable Funding for Universities, etc.). The 2nd show is on the effect Statins and their usefulness. The final episode covers Angeoplasty, and other medical practices for the heart and how effective they are.

For anyone wanting to download the three broadcast shows, these broadcast are no longer available from the CBC site (dropped after 3 months) but I could link them for a week at YouSendIt.com for anyone that wants a copy for their MP3 player or CD. YouSendIt is great for transferring files up to 100MB and the only mail load is the link.