One tube down, two to go...

[Bogie]

Yesterday Jen had the penrose drain removed... And next week, if she's lucky, the JP drain and the feeding tube go...

Guys, seriously, if you know someone who is considering gastric bypass, lock 'em in the basement. Duct tape might help.

I mean, we were sitting in the office, and you could tell who the new patients were - they were the ones whose eyes got a bit freaked when they saw the IV stand and feeding pump that Jen carts around... The absolute idiot who handles the quack's scheduling did us for 10:30 for upper GI shots, and then we were supposed to kill time until 3:30 at the quack's office... and we were 3 hours from home...

Are you kidding? You guys know Bogie...

Drove right over. Parked Jen and the apparatus at one end of the waiting room. Plugged it into the wall. Talked loudly to anyone who even looked like they were gonna make eye contact... And lemme tell you - the Bogie can work a room... About 1:00ish, like magic, they had us in the back...

You know something? I'm no doctor, but the people who were obviously new patients generally didn't NEED the surgery... Yeah, they were biggish... But sheesh... It wasn't anything that a good family, eating correctly (deep fried twinkie is NOT a food group...), and even a MODERATE amount of exercise wouldn't fix... The way those folks moved (generally women...) my guess is that they took up position on the couch at about 8:30, within reach of snacks, and stayed there for the rest of the day... Now, I'm a big guy... always will be. But there's this concept called muscle...

[Shadow]

Bogie - It's good to have you back :lol:! Hopefully the remaining drain and feeding tube will soon be history too :).

[miralin]

Bogie you have a way with words!

[cmcole]

As I don't know you, I wasn't sure if this was truthful or not.

[SherryJ]

It's the truth, cm.

Bogie doesn't lie... Nor does anyone else here, that I know of...

Sherry

[Bogie]

Oh yeah... Been through hell lately...

The thing I really don't understand... These are people who like to eat. And they are essentially having a portion of their GI tract amputated... Which means that they are NEVER gonna be able to just sit down and get stupid ever again. And they're going to have to be completely religious about their diet for the rest of their lives...

Now, there are some folks who are serious food addicts... But sheesh... If someone told me I'd NEVER be able to have another Cold Frosty Beverage, I'd find room in the back yard for 'em... But if Cold Frosty Beverages were limited to say Saturday afternoon by the pool, well, I could live with that...

Oh, and doctors get REALLY hacked when you suggest that they quit "dumbing down" their instructions, and that you'll ask questions if you don't understand something... I worked 10 years in a pharma research lab - I think I can understand things like "clear liquid diet."

BTW, Jen is also starting to come around... "Low-Fat is BAD for you" is starting to settle in... Main reason being is that over the past few months (lots of pain and throwing up upon eating, so not a lot of eating...) she's had her hair start to get brittle, and had problems with her nails, and now she KNOWS that she needs to eat her protein first, fat second, and that carbage is optional...

cmcole, I can kick Jared's ass.

[Gaelen]

Bogie, Jen is lucky to have you looking out for her...
after all of the current issues, do the docs give her a decent chance to return to some level of normalcy? (normal for post-bypass, anyway?)

A dear friend of mine had surgery last month called lap-banding...where they don't amputate the GI tract, but instead install a (removeable) band which can be inflated to restrict the stomach's size and therefore restrict intake. She is in the 'serious food addict' category, and although she is not in any way a couch potato, she didn't feel that after 30 years of being heavy, she would ever have the self-control she needed to lose the 175 lbs she needs to lose.

Lap-banding is theoretically safer than gastric bypass--and she has, in fact, come through the last two months really well. But still, she had to go on a pre-surgery diet to demonstrate that she could lose 10% of her body weight. And she did it (by restricting carbs). My question at that point was why can't you just continue to eat low carb...you've already proven that you can do it if you just give yourself the right motivation ('you've gotta do this' seemed to work well for her...)

Her answer was that it was just too hard to always eat right, and that she couldn't physically or emotionally stand to try (and fail) yet another time. 1The thing is, I've been doing this for 4 1/2 years, and I don't *always* eat right either. It's not a gotta-be-100%-perfect thing. A 'diet' is what you eat, not how perfect you are every time you put something in your mouth.

I get that need to succeed and that fear of failure...I really do. But as you point out, once a bypass patient has the surgery, there are no more choices about what you can eat...ever again. You've GOT to focus on protein first, fat second, carbs severely restricted, and that never changes. If there are complications, it gets worse, maybe even more restrictive. It's enforced consistency.

Maybe the reason gastric surgery just never seemed a viable option is that I'm too much of a control freak to ever surrender control of what I eat, forever, to a guy with a scalpel and a visual of my GI tract. I'm not perfect on plan every day, every meal--a long way from it--but at least I am still mistress of my own road to hell. ;)

Hope Jen continues to improve...

[momuvfour]

Of course on the Health Channel they never tell you the downside of gastric bypass surgery do they

[Gaelen]

Of course on the Health Channel they never tell you the downside of gastric bypass surgery do they

Actually, they did...but the last gastric bypass special I saw was on NBC, not the 'Health' channel (which doesn't, IMO, spend much time on health at all...) Al Roker did a Dateline piece shortly after revealing his own gastric bypass surgery which has recently re-aired. He spent nearly a third of the hour reviewing the dangers and the behavior changes that are mandatory, and another third interviewing the widow of a patient who died, and the medical personnel at the center where he went for the surgery and his complications.

At a good surgery center, they DO spend a great deal of time doing the psych analysis that is supposed to weed out people who aren't good emotional candidates for the surgery. The prep for the surgery is between six and 12 months of counseling and behavior modification in these parts. But where there are communication issues, or more emphasis on greed than on medicine, that pre-surgical analysis and counseling doesn't happen. And after cutting has begun, the die is cast.

[BawdyWench]

But as you point out, once a bypass patient has the surgery, there are no more choices about what you can eat...ever again. You've GOT to focus on protein first, fat second, carbs severely restricted, and that never changes. If there are complications, it gets worse, maybe even more restrictive. It's enforced consistency.

Over the past couple years, two people where I work had gastric bypass surgery (by different doctors using different methods). The first, a man, lost something like 200 pounds in a very short amount of time -- like 6 to 8 months. Granted, he looked like hell for a bit, but now he looks GREAT. His surgery was probably 3 years ago. He eats "normally" now. He doesn't seem to have to do anything special. I don't think he eats as much as he used to, but he definitely doesn't pay attention to "protein first, fat second, carbs severely restricted." And he has not gained anything back.

The second person, a woman, had her surgery probably 2 years ago. Her health was bad to begin with, and they even made her lose 100 pounds on her own before they would do the surgery -- which begs the question, if she could lose 100 pounds on her own, why not all of it?

Anyway, her surgery didn't go as well. She has had 5 or 6 "repair" surgergies, and is almost constantly sick. She can't eat more than a couple bites of something (even 2 years later), she has no muscle tone because she's too weak to exercise -- even to walk more than 2 mph on the treadmill for more than a couple minutes.

It's hard to make sweeping generalizations about people. I know a woman on another board who joined our Protein Power discussion several years ago. She was determined to lose the weight (she was almost 300 pounds), but struggled a lot at first. We all gave her support and urged her on. I didn't hold out much hope for her at first, but she surprised us all. One day it just clicked for her. Today she's around 170 and runs marathons. She literally has a new life.

It's hard to say why some people can knuckle under and lose the weight and others can't.

<< did I have a point here or am I just rambling? >>

[sueo]

I'm a bit hesitant to kick in here, as you all seem to know so much about gastric bypass.

I had the surgery 22 months ago last Saturday. For me, there wasn't another choice. I couldn't take care of myself, could barely walk from my car to my office without wheezing and coughing. I had terrible GERD despite ever-increasing doses of medication. My joints were screaming at me constantly. I could barely walk down the driveway to get the paper, much less really exercise. I was lucky in that I wasn't diabetic, didn't have high cholesterol. I only had borderline high blood presure and beginnings of sleep apnea. Years ago I had success in losing weight with Dr. Atkins and PP, but even following that didn't work anymore. I worked with a nutritionist, followed their plan perfectly, and gained more weight.

I've seen peole have this surgery who really don't know what they are going into. They haven't been pro-active in learning everything that they can ahead of time. They don't contemplate what life will be like afterwards. They don't participate in support groups after surgery to continue learning. They don't change their behaviors, revert back to their old ways of eating, and subvert the surgery. I don't think some physicians adequately prepare their patients for the road ahead.

I read and thought about the surgery, how it would require that I change my life, what was the mortality information, what the potential benefits to my health could be, for 2 years before I visited a surgeon and sought approval from my insurance company. The silliest part was that I'd heard that you could never drink soda again after surgery and this was a huge stumbling block for me. And that part wasn't even true. I had to avoid it for several months, but now I can sip on my beloved Diet Coke throughout the day. I belch a lot, but I do get to drink it again.

My surgery was completely uneventful. I had no drains or tubes in me when I woke up from surgery. That isn't the experience of everyone, but I think that most of the people in my support group had similar experiences. The more serious the pre-surgery illnesses, the greater the risks during surgery. But that occurs with any surgery. My neighbor died during hip replacement surgery.

Immediately following surgery, there is substantial control and restriction over what and when and how you eat/drink. You do need to be vigilant forever about nutrition, vitamin absorbtion, depending on the type of surgical procedure that was performed. Not all types cause malabsorbtion, some just provide restriction of the quantities that can be consumed. But, as your body heals from surgery the restrictions decrease, the capacity increases and life gets closer to "normal".

Some people do have issues with consuming some types of foods even when they are long-term post-ops but most people I know have no difficulty with anything. I can (and do) eat anything, mostly avoiding breads and pastas, grains as they sit rather heavily. Yes, I usually eat protein first out of habit, although last night I ate my asparagus first. I stop drinking 1/2 hour before meals, don't take more than a small sip during meals, and don't startup volume drinking for around an hour after meals. There isn't space in the pouch for food and liquid. I do keep a daily food journal to make sure I stay within my defined boundaries. I could easily consume twice as much food each day as I allow myself to if I allowed myself to indulge in behaviors like grazing. Oddly enough, foods like potato chips go down quite easily. Some people have "dumping" syndrome following sugar consumption. I restrict those types of carbs, so I don't have problems.

I have extensive lab work twice per year, and everything is always well within normal limits. There are a few nutrients in particular that gastric bypass patients who had the surgery that I did have to be especially vigilant about monitoring -- B12, thiamine, iron, calcium. I have to be careful to remember to take my supplements.

Was it worth it? Yes, absolutely. It has given me my life back. The GERD is gone. The asthma is gone. The borderline blood pressure is now low. I can do all those daily living tasks that were practically impossible before. The joint pain is still there, especially in my feet, which makes working out difficult. I hope I can prevent further joint damage by getting my weight down. I still have at least 35 lbs to go.

Are there negatives? I guess so. There is the issue of excess skin, but anybody who had been very obese for many years would have that problem after losing weight. I'm liable to maim somebody if they get close enough to my flapping upper arms when I'm exercising. I am having trouble with hair loss starting a few months ago, and am having a frustrating time getting an answer as to why despite numerous visits to various practitioners. But, I can always shave it off and buy a wig if I have to.

Would I do it again? You bet, in a second. I've gone from a life of increasing isolation and separation from the rest of the world to one where I'm busy and active. I can do whatever I want to instead of wishing I could.

Sorry this got so long,

[BawdyWench]

I'm a bit hesitant to kick in here, as you all seem to know so much about gastric bypass.

Ummmm, I think you know a whole lot more about gastric bypass than anyone here! Kudos to you for doing what you needed to do to restore your health and your life!

There are many reasons people gain weight, and many more why they can't lose weight once they pass a certain point.

I, for one, did not mean to judge anyone who has had the surgery. I had two friends who had it -- one did famously and the other didn't. Of course, the one who did famously was is quite good health (other than being obese); the one who had myriad problems was in extremely poor health before she had the surgery.

I think you did it the smart way. You read, you researched, you analyzed. You sought out the best doctors for you, and you did it.

Congratulations on your health!!! :D

[Bogie]

I've seen people who think it is just another way to diet, and since they've turned "dieting" into a hobby, well, they just have to try it.

Gastric bypass is NOT a diet. It's an amputation. Frankly, if you had decided to eat the way you did AFTER the surgery BEFORE the surgery, the surgery would be unnecessary.