MAX!!!?? and anyone else interested in thyroid stuff. [Archive]

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Missy

10-30-2006, 10:10 AM

Max...Here's what you wrote:

Thanks, re Thyroid. Couple questions this leads to:
1- I take it on empty stomach, wait half an hour, go down an get breakfast, then take DualTabs which I discovered has 500mgs of calcium in a 2 pill serving. Wonder if this creates conflict as well. I'm not super worried about calcium, not being a woman, though with thyroid, I suppose I need to be more cautious. Thanks for this complication (happy for the info).

2- What's the link on that site, Missy?

3- Wondering about taking it first thing, then shower for 20, then brush teeth? Then fiber and Adderall at work, half hour, then breakfast, and so on. I'm guessing the site will help.

My answer/suggestion:

1. Take you vitamin hours later. Give your thyroid a chance to get there first. I was, at the time, supplimenting with ADDITIONAL calcium...and here, I didn't know it, I never NEEDED it as my calcium levels are through the roof to begin with. It's the magniesum I needed to reduce and balance the calcium. We woman are just "pushed" toward the "need".

Do you take magniesum? That I take in the evening, just before bed time....and that should help level out the calcium levels. This is what Dr's Eades's talked about in their book PPLP.

2. Here's the link to Mary's site: MASSIVE by the way! It's an "about" forum....those tend to drive me batty. I learned about the calcium though from another forum poster. I never posted...to busy, too impersonal...but as always sites like these and personal experience is often interesting and helpful.

http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroiddrugstreatments/a/discontinued.htm?nl=1

3. Yep, take it FIRST thing in the morning....and you can even try and let it dissove under your tongue for fastest absorption...but, that seems to be a tad bit retentive to me..lol So, I keep fresh water by my bed, and take it asap. Sometime, if I'm having a bad nights sleep...and I find myself fussy (hard to discribe) I've learned that my thyroid meds didn't "last" me the whole day and I need to take it (in the middle of the night) and within a half hour it soothes me and settles me right down. FUN feeling...and fun to realise that you can know your body's signs so well too!

ALSO you know that thyroid meds are "active" medication...and they like many other meds tend to lose their effectiveness if you have them for too long don't you? Another "detail" to get retentive over...lol :D

Get Mary's Book Max....it's a GREAT READ for thyroider's!

Living Well with Hypothyroidism by Mary Shomon.

maxlharris

10-30-2006, 02:13 PM

Thanks Missy,

Will have to read the book or something on the subject. Doctor Z has been a little less than forthcoming about the thyroid issue. I first went in to him to get my blood glucose and cholesterol and SMA-24 and all the good stuff the Eades talked about in PP. He said he thought my thyroid was enlarged. He ordered a test to measure the thing that forces the thyroid to dump hormone out into the system and it was elevated (this is something I had to figure out for myself after getting my lab result faxed to me). He then ordered an ultrasound because he thought it might be goiter. I guess the ultrasound came back negative because that's the last I've heard of it.

Then, on visit to discuss the ultrasound and my elevated cholesterol, he orders a TPO and gets me on 50mcg of generic synthroid. He gives me reason to believe that we're going to be adjusting it for a while. No results from the TPO, of course, and not really any discussion.

Next visit, to check on it, he takes some blood, is pleased with weightloss, blah blah. I'm guessing he looks at blood for the thyroid precursor guy again, as well as cholesterol. Calls me at home (after I told him to get me at the office) while I'm in mid commute. I call him back and insist he call me at the office. Good news, cholesterol is way lower than he thought it would be. Bad news, have to up the dose of synthroid.

I get new script for synthroid, and actually read the fine print. They suggest 1/2 hour before food, take with 8 oz water. No problem. That's what I mostly do anyway. I take my adderall at the same time. I dunno if there is any interaction between the thyroid stuff and the ADD stuff. I dunno that there has been abundant research on that, but Doctor says nothing to worry about and nurse at work says same. Fiber thing was a surprise to me. So, moving fiber to pre-lunch and maybe pre-dinner. Vitamins have been post-prandial always, so I dunno if there is a conflict. I take thyroid, write some stuff for half an hour, go down, across the street, get breakfast, trudge back up, eat breakfast, do some other stuff and then eat vitamins, Probably an hour apart at least, usually more.

Any rate, will check out the book and get back to nagging my doctor for my lab results.

lizi145

10-30-2006, 02:29 PM

I guess the ultrasound came back negative because that's the last I've heard of it.

Would you be able to contact the doctor's office to get the results? I would think the doctor's office should notify you of any results..positive or negative.

Then, on visit to discuss the ultrasound and my elevated cholesterol, he orders a TPO and gets me on 50mcg of generic synthroid. He gives me reason to believe that we're going to be adjusting it for a while. No results from the TPO, of course, and not really any discussion.

Again, I would think you should get results. Sometimes, we have to be our own advocate and researcher. A couple of years ago, I ordered all of my medical records to review them. I ran across some things which I probably should have been told about but wasn't...so, I followed up and researched these things on my own.

I get new script for synthroid, and actually read the fine print. They suggest 1/2 hour before food, take with 8 oz water. No problem. That's what I mostly do anyway. I take my adderall at the same time. I dunno if there is any interaction between the thyroid stuff and the ADD stuff. I dunno that there has been abundant research on that, but Doctor says nothing to worry about and nurse at work says same. Fiber thing was a surprise to me. So, moving fiber to pre-lunch and maybe pre-dinner. Vitamins have been post-prandial always, so I dunno if there is a conflict.

You could also make some calls to several different pharamacists to get their opinions, too.

Any rate, will check out the book and get back to nagging my doctor for my lab results.

Sounds like a great idea!:D

Missy

10-30-2006, 02:45 PM

lizi145

10-30-2006, 02:50 PM

Yeah, when my doctor's office calls with my blood test results, I start writing down all of the numbers. Then, they said, "would it be easier to mail it to you?":lol:

maxlharris

10-30-2006, 07:16 PM

Yep, I agree with Lizi. I began making SURE I was given all results....it's the law, If you request, they have to. Now, I keep them all in a file about me and my history. I wish I would have had my ORIGINAL blood test numbers to see where I "was" and were I am now. It's great to compare. If your going to be your own advocate and researcher these are important things to know and learn about!

Yeah. I ask Doctor. Doctor's lazy assistant says, sure. Then she never follows through. Will be complaining to doctor about secretary person, but I dunno if that's going to do any good. Had to be like my mom nagging me to get my original blood test results.

Actually Max...your on what I consider a low dose of thyroid meds. And that actually depends upon each individual...so be glad that your Dr is willing to work and watch you with this...as TOO MANY Dr's don't understand thyroid meds..and the prescribe it by the ONE SIZE FITS ALL theory.

I personally take 100mgs of synthroid and 90gms of Armour. Another lesson I learned the hard way about thyroid meds. My mail in pharmacy company that's my husband insurance plan...well, they switched me from synthroid to generic one time, and MAN O MAN what a difference I could tell. I didn't know WHAT was wrong with me...but something obviously was. I don't care what they say, generic thyroid wasn't as good as synthroid. That's my opinion due to MY experience.

So, we're starting on the generic. It was a cost thing and since then, insurance company has switched things up quite a bit. Would be more than quite a bit more expensive to be on the real thing. We shall see. My doc doesn't like armour thyroid. I dunno why. Since it's in the third tier of my insurance's drug plan (was 21/month is now more like 35 or 40) I wasn't particularly interested, I was only relieved that he didn't want to go there. Diff between generic and real deal was $7/month is now $17/month. So, probably not going there.

I'm on a low dose probably because of a few things:
1- Doc decided we would start at the bottom and work way up. I dunno that we're there yet.
2- I don't know this, but I might have more natural thyroid function. We think that the hashimoto's thyroitis set in around 30, when it hit my mom, her sister, her mom, her aunt and pretty much every other woman I'm related to.
3- Weight issue.

Dunno enough to say and doc isn't the best resource. Not sure about switching, though that feels like the right thing to do. I told my wife it's kind of like the people who say, "You don't switch president in the middle of a war."

So, I read up on the symptoms and it fits, but I don't really feel that different with or without the pills. Maybe it's a low dose. But I do feel a lot better. But is that the thyroid? Or the 25 lbs that is gone? Or the vitamins? Or the protein? Or the ADD medication? Or the flying spaghetti monster. I can't tease it all apart.

As far as this book in particular, I'm just suggesting this ONE in particular to save you money and time wasted on "other" books...just so you know.

Recommendation taken

I believe thyroid and high cholesterol...go hand in hand. I don't recall exactly the connection...but I believe there is one.

Yes. Doc did say that he wanted to get the thyroid stabilized before he got to work on destroying my liver with statins (my interpretation of what he actually said). He said I might see some weight loss and some lowered cholesterol. I looked this up on WebMD but I seem to be less wonky on this than other things, because it was good enough to know it was gonna drop my cholesterol. That was a rough afternoon. No knowledge about cholesterol at all, looking at my protein lunch like it was poison. Very hard day.

Anyrate, Doc's secretary was out today and the secretary for the other doc in the office couldn't help me. So, tomorrow, I start to nag again. Very frustrating.

LisaS

10-30-2006, 07:21 PM

you know the FSM? :)

everything I've read says take your thyroid on empty stomach and don't eat for at least an hour - and even more effective is to split your dose and take the 2nd half 6 hours later - but that seems to get tricky with the timing of lunch, doesn't it?

Missy

10-31-2006, 07:42 AM

Lisa...what's FSM?

and secondly, you are right, a split dose would be BEST...and I had even tried it, but I ended up failing at doing so, because many if not most of the time I'd FORGET to work in that second dose...so then I would get half what was necessary. :rolleyes: All my fault, of course...but if it gets too complicated then I find I don't comply.

Max....I understand the frustrations of offices like that...but prevail my friend, it's worth it, and it helps you feel empowered as you educate yourself over the course of your lifetime of health. Most people don't care, but, those generally are the people who just take their Dr's word for it.
Remember, you shouldn't have to NAG, it's your right. Say so, they'll get the message.

Generic vs. the "real" thing...cost, I understand. Perhaps you will do just fine on generic...I just wanted to give you my experience on having been switched from the regular brand TO generic. Many say there is no difference...but, don't buy it. With thyroid meds there is.

You may not think you SHOULD switch Presidents in the middle of a war, and with all of your additional conditions, you may be right. BUT....I personally would leave that door open. The more empowered, educated and informed you get about your conditions and the more questions you ask your current President, the more you may find that HIS beliefs won't match yours. You only know what you know, till you know better. Same with the Dr.

Alot of Dr's "don't like" Armour...and it could be for several reasons. ONE they THINK it's unnecessary, TWO, they have no experience with it, THREE, it's an "old fashioned" or "inaccurate" ...and here we go, "natural"...eekkk medication. FOUR because SYNTHROID is the "end all be all"...and "T4" therapy "only" is also the end all be all. Which is not. The purpose of Armour is for those of us who don't convert well...and we NEED the T3's of Armour. There are other types of T'3's too.

You feel better?...oh DEFINITELY, it's the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!! LOL

My Dr. as well isn't a fan of blanket prescribing of statins...even though he says there is definite USE for them...just not accrossed the board as MANY Dr's have/do. I think the opinion of that is changing, thank goodness. NOT that I really know, actually. But I sense that it is.

Your cholesterol, after reading (the books)...listening and learning the PPLP woe (here) ....is that in fact it will work in lowering it...and it's one of those things Max that you have to tune out the world....because they are of that WHOLE wrong bent...and walk in faith that YOUR on the right track....don't allow those messages in anymore.

I recall, back when I was untangling this all for myself from various sources....that at times it snowed me under with information...but eventually the right messages began popping up and the logic of them made more sense. THEN I learned to empower myself and seek the help of a Dr. who matched ME not vise versa. A little more expensive at first, yes, but NOT SO in the end if it means that I'm coming OFF medication. There's always up front costs/verses value.

Hope this helps in some way....cause....:suspicious: ya KNOWWWW I talk ALOT! ;) :D

LisaS

10-31-2006, 03:50 PM

sorry about the acronym.
max wrote:So, I read up on the symptoms and it fits, but I don't really feel that different with or without the pills. Maybe it's a low dose. But I do feel a lot better. But is that the thyroid? Or the 25 lbs that is gone? Or the vitamins? Or the protein? Or the ADD medication? Or the flying spaghetti monster. I can't tease it all apart.

FSM is the Flying Spaghetti Monster . I was surprised to see the reference here and commented on it. ( I suspect Max to be a pirate, but can't be sure)

Here is a primer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster

maxlharris

11-01-2006, 08:10 AM

Missy... too much material to comment on, even for me!

So, I got lab results by fax. I found out by calling that they never sent them because faxing is apparently in violation of their privacy policy. I prevailed and got faxed some mostly illegilble lab reports, but I did see the following bit of info had changed:
On 8/28, TSH was: 11.514 (against normal range of .35 - 5.5)
On 10/20, TSH was: 6.767 (against the same normal range)

So, I guess things got a lot better on the 50mcg. I note that I was taking it with fiber at least 80% of the days, so I might be there on 75mcg. As noted elsewhere, my sex drive has been through the roof and I had like an honest to god breakout of pimples last week, so something is going on in the endocrine system. I dunno that it is all Thyroid or maybe it is ADD stuff or weight loss or protein intake. Like I told my doc, I am an ecology type of person so I'm pursuing an ecology type solution. I dunno that he got that, but I thought it was clear from the context.

Synthyroid vs Armour vs Levothyroxine Generic: My mom takes Levo Generic like I do and has results, I guess. It's one of those things that it's hard to see in others. She's been on for a long time (30 years) and went from Patent to Off Patent and it works for her. Definitely a Your Science Experiment discussion.

Switching leadership: The funny thing is, I think the "Don't switch in wartime" mentality is too simple to be worthwhile. But when it's your battle, logic is not necessarily your first tool, right? We did this case in business school, about a manufacturing firm buying machinery. They buy a big machine on day one, then get an offer for a bigger machine on day two. The way it's set up, the correct business decision is to buy the machine on day one, then buy the second machine on day two. If your boss wants to fire you, so be it, but the proper move for the guy making the decision is to buy both machines at the time they are offered. So, I can see dumping Zahalsky. But the competitive person in me still wants to show him that with LC, I can beat my cholesterol problem.

Lisa- Split dose + ADD = BAD IDEA. Am currently paying $17 extra a month to take Adderall XR instead of generic, two pills a day. Mostly because I wasn't taking the second pill at all. Very bad idea. I'm sure it's the best way, but not gonna happen around here.

I got FSM from Richard Dawkins. Was reading a piece on atheism on maybe Wired.com that made mention of him. I enjoy the freedom of invoking FSM for things I can't explain (like why my friggin Tanita and my two bf% formulas cannot agree this month). Not going to sell anyone on non-belief, because it's a tough road with a lot of feeling of not belonging (not a lot of clubs and groups organized around negative propositions) and very frustrating talking to and watching things in the world. But FSM is a lot of fun.

I am very over the fear of the cholesterol. Have to thank the Drs. Eades for their help, both in book form and in emails. Eating the stuff that everyone suggests will jack your Cholesterol levels and dropping it majorly is just fun for me. But I'm a jerk like that.

Missy

11-01-2006, 04:47 PM

FSM....ah...I see, interesting! Thanks for the reference Lisa. :D

Max...lol I'll TRY and keep it brief! :rolleyes: lol

First of all...my TSH levels are as close to the .35 my Dr and I can get me. WITHOUT going "over". Armour helped with that....synthroid alone 100mgs didn't. Each individual is different...but at a TSH level in the 2.5's...I knew there was room for improvement..so I fired my former Dr. after she, nor the Endrocrobalkdfjaist..lol (can't spell, don't care) refused to listen to me and my "symptoms" but would ~ call it "close enough" ~take the synthroid, ~shut up, ~and come back in six months. Oh and...give me fifty bucks!.....nnnnnnnneextttttttttt! :rolleyes: ...and THIS was the expert specialist! huh! :rolleyes:

My beginning TSH was 6.5.

So, you have a ways to go. AND just so you know that lab range for "normal" that you posted is up for "debate" too. But, I won't explain it so I don't drag out this reply.

Yes, generic can work, I"m sure...but not necessarily are you getting equal 50mgs of generic as you are 50% synthroid..that was my point.

I know there is GREAT appeal to "show him" ~ your current Dr...and that has some sort of satisfaction...BUT in the end Max...is he really going to care??? Maybe...but maybe not. Isn't YOUR health and well being and being properly diagnosed and treated "optimally" isn't that a better thinking then competing? I'm not needing an answer...just giving you something to weigh out.

I too wish for answers to questions with my former Dr. and after I learned a great deal MORE then she obviously did...well, what's the point of the competition. :eek: I don't mean to come accrossed as cocky...but it just became obvious to me that the pharmacy business ideals were what ran her ideals. Not good....and not for me.

Again, hope this helps in some fashion. I think your amusing! lol