Anatomy of the Whoosh!

[WakefieldWendy]

I seem to lose weight by chunks. I will often hold a weight all week, and then drop more than a pound on the weekends (and I am weighing on an electronic scale that gives answers to the level of 1/10 of a pound).

I don't think that is truly indicative of the fat loss happening all at once. It isn't simply inaccurate weighing, because I weigh myself several times in order to work with the different numbers the scale gives.

I don't understand what is happening. I know it happens to some others this way too. Is there a reason?

[Mitra]

When I plotted a graph of my daily weight over several months, what I got was a fuzzy line about two pounds thick. As far as I know, it's because hydration levels vary (depending on hormones, electrolytes, food, exercise, illness, inflammation ...), and they can easily vary by a couple of pounds from one day to the next, whereas you're not at all likely to lose or gain two pounds of fat overnight. The small day to day changes in fat are lost in the noise of water variations. Taking a weekly average, or looking at trends can help you to see past the noise.

[Spruce Goose]

I've run into something similar. I have one week where nothing happens then sometime during the next week I'll have a drop (1+ lb) with some smaller fluctuations (few tenths of lb).

The other thing is that right after a drop, I usually rebound a little (ie, might drop 2 lbs from previous day and next day gain one back).

It annoyed me at first. Now I just don't get my hopes up in the off week.

[laughingW]

I read an interesting snippet about this on the Kimkins forum, authored by Lyle McDonald:

Explanation for the 'Whoosh' Effect
Fat cell water content and fat loss

It's something I've mentioned over the years, an assertion that my exercise physiology professor had made regarding fat loss.

Note that under normal conditions, fat cells contain ~90% triglycerides and ~10% other stuff where other stuff includes some water, the cellular machinery that makes all the stuff that fat cells make and a couple of other things that I'm forgetting right now. Basically, fat cells do not normally contain much water.

He told us that, after triglycerides were removed from the cell, that the fat cells refilled with water in the short-term, eventually the body dropped that water and the fat loss 'became evident' (a goofy way for me to try to describe when the fat loss actually shows up on calipers, one of those dumb Tanita scales, or visually).

If nothing else, this gives a plausible mechanism for the non-linear fat loss that is so often seen. Folks will do everything right for weeks with no results. then overnight, something happens and the scale drops a bunch. Many diet newsgroups and forums refer to this as a 'whoosh' which often follows a stall.

A couple of empirical data points in support of this: people who use tanita scales have often reported that it will tell them that their BF has gone up right before a 'whoosh' occurs and a big drop. This suggests something goofy is going on with water balance.

Another is that fat often gets squishy (suggesting a change in what's in there) prior to a drop in skinfolds/ improvement in appearance.

I looked for research on the topic for a decade to no success. I made up my own plausible mechanism having to do with glycerol levels in the fat cell (glycerol is hydrophilic); if fatty acids were being lost at a greater proportion than glycerol, this mght explain how water is attracted into the fat cell. Except that, usually, glycerol and fatty acid are released in about the proportion you'd expect (3:1 FFA:glycerol).

edit: For what very little it's worth, Colgan mentions something similar in OPtimum Sports Nutrition, something about the body 'tracking' glycerol to keep track of fat stores. It's possible that the research on this is just pre-medline. Or he and my teacher just pulled it out of the old a$$.

A couple of years back, a paper came out showing an increase in water content of visceral fat with dieting. First semi-direct data I've seen. I don't recall the mechanism being mentioned but I may not have ever read the full paper.

[maxlharris]

Ultimately, this explanation seems to work with the one offered by Mitra (and one that I like).

Some extra thought:
Muscle is heavier than fat, due to the water content (I think it's high 70% for muscle, mid 50's% for fat). That's part of how the electrical impedance scales and BF measures work. Water is probably heavier than even muscle. So, you're doing your LC diet. Your fat cells are becoming more watery (the kimkins explanation), while the other stuff is going. Then you dump some water and whoosh.

Either way, if you want a neat tool for tracking that will smooth things out and give you a better idea of what's up (but you still like to weigh every day), google "Hacker's diet", do not read any of the book, except how to work his spreadsheet with smoothing function. Very slick.

[WakefieldWendy]

I get the logic that you've described, but here's where I'm still confused.

Presumably this process (converting part of fat cells to water, and then losing the water) is happening continuously. So why does the scale jump?

Let me make the point clearer, using some made up numbers. Let's say that a particular group of fat cells (cell block A!) gets used to meet a caloric deficit on Monday. Their fat gets converted to water. You weigh 200 lbs on Monday.

On Tuesday, cell block B gets converted. You still weigh 200 lbs because cell block A is still holding the water.

On Wednesday, cell block C gets converted. Cell block A releases the water it was holding (say .2 lbs worth) and you weigh 199.8 lbs.

On Thursday, cell block D gets converted. Cell block B releases the water it was holding (say .2 lbs worth) and you weigh 199.6 lbs.

And so on. Of course, this assumes a constant rate of fat usage, and I'm inventing a standard time to hold onto the water. But you can see this would not produce a whoosh.

So either or both of those things must not be accurate. Either we have different caloric deficits and therefore different rates of fat usage, or we don't hold onto the "fat cell water" for a standard period of time. I can't believe the first, because when I whoosh it can be more than a pound in a day, and I can't believe that there is any day when I'd have that much need for consuming fat stores.

Am I making sense yet?

[Missy]

lol...not to make light....but....:cool: all I know is that MY personal cell "blocks" all seem to have a personal indoor Jacuzzi in there room, a indoor lap pool, an out door Olympic sized pool, whirlpool, a kiddie wadding pond, and several sprinklers! :eek: :rolleyes: and....they LOVE to swim. :o So...they aren't really willing to "give up the water" with any regularity! Every once in a long while....the lifeguard blows the whistle and yells "OKAY EVERYONE OUT!!!!!" :D

I'm a whoosher Wendy...so I guess, after all this time....I have to KNOW this about me...and keep my head in the game for a LONG LONG time inbetween the damn scale game. I have resigned myself to that. I appreciate all this information shared on this thread.

I have to remember "I feel thinner! I FEEL THINNER!!!! I FEEEEEEEEL THINNER!!!!!" regardless of what that scale says.

Wendy...using your analogy....I don't think that my cell blocks release in any order...you know? Just because A did lose it's fat and filled with water...it doesn't care what B, C, D, etc is doing....and it won't "release" in any order until it's just ready to.

I once..at one point in my weightloss history did, as I am now, all the right things and didn't lose and didn't lose...and then suddenly lost twenty pounds in two weeks...describing a "whoosh" to a 't'. At that time, I didn't know what a whoosh was and was, actually FREAKED. Now I say BRING IT!!! :D

[WakefieldWendy]

Missy, thanks.

I'm not freaking out by the whoosh, just wondering about it. Stalls will come and go. I remember when I was first doing this and had my first stall, I thought "that's the end" but it wasn't, as I lost again the next week. (This was early on when I was losing 2-3 pounds every week - a stall would have to be longer now to register).

[maxlharris]

I get the logic that you've described, but here's where I'm still confused.

Presumably this process (converting part of fat cells to water, and then losing the water) is happening continuously. So why does the scale jump?

Let me make the point clearer, using some made up numbers. Let's say that a particular group of fat cells (cell block A!) gets used to meet a caloric deficit on Monday. Their fat gets converted to water. You weigh 200 lbs on Monday.

On Tuesday, cell block B gets converted. You still weigh 200 lbs because cell block A is still holding the water.

On Wednesday, cell block C gets converted. Cell block A releases the water it was holding (say .2 lbs worth) and you weigh 199.8 lbs.

On Thursday, cell block D gets converted. Cell block B releases the water it was holding (say .2 lbs worth) and you weigh 199.6 lbs.

And so on. Of course, this assumes a constant rate of fat usage, and I'm inventing a standard time to hold onto the water. But you can see this would not produce a whoosh.

So either or both of those things must not be accurate. Either we have different caloric deficits and therefore different rates of fat usage, or we don't hold onto the "fat cell water" for a standard period of time. I can't believe the first, because when I whoosh it can be more than a pound in a day, and I can't believe that there is any day when I'd have that much need for consuming fat stores.

Am I making sense yet?

Let's throw some other factors in.
Let's say, it's 200 today. Then I go and have a calorically cool level of hot wings. Sodium should help me hold water. I might dump some fat, but still be heavier. A couple days later, I flush the sodium, and the water, and I get to see my the fruits of my fat loss.

Factor two: I put on a series of good workouts, and actually build some muscle. I might hold some extra water with that.

Factor 3: Less than regular bowel movements.

Factor 4: feminine cycle and water retention.

I'm sure there are other hormonal triggers.

The thing is, maybe there is a flush factor that produces the whoosh, maybe not. There are a lot of things that factor into the scale number, and it's hideously complicated to tease it all out.

If you're really curious, buy one of the expensive body fat scales that separates water weight out.

I still recommend the Hacker's loss tracker with smoothing if you're going to weigh daily. The whoosh will be more in context.

[Missy]

My situation Wendy is that NOTHING is steady with me. :rolleyes: :( :mad: I don't even get one to two pounds (visually) a week...I would be THRILLED to death at that. I'm more likely a one to two pounds a month...and that all fly's in the face that I see in other people's experience....especially at my size. :cool:

I'm glad you wondered out loud Wendy..as this whoosh factor has always fascinated me...but for me, I think I tend to forget about it..and get lost in the discouragement..and before I get the benefit of the whoosh, I mess up my plan. I'm not going to do that to myself any longer. I have to consistently and constantly deal in the reality that I'm in a constant state of "stall"....but over come that that is JUST the visual stall (on a scale) and rationalize that, in fact, my body IS doing it's function.


This is always a facinating topic to me. Especially after experiencing it at one time. :D

[WakefieldWendy]

You know, I guess part of me was always wondering, why do I seem to whoosh on the weekend. (It seemed like 3 weeks in a row I was holding weight throughout the week to my Saturday morning weigh in, and then Sunday and sometimes Monday would produce a whoosh). So it seemed like it wasn't random. So I wanted to understand that. Maybe there's something different I'm doing on Saturday that causes the water to go?

What I don't want to do is say "that means there's a problem with how I eat M-F" because I know the weekend weight loss didn't happen in those 2 days alone.

[Missy]

....who knows?? Maybe it has something to do with a stress level or something??? It's so hard, and so unknown....but I'm with you..I LOVE to analyze this kinda stuff! Like somehow I'll come up with THE enlightened answer or something!!!! :o :D