Kidney stones and low carbing - I did a lc woe a few

[Molly]

years back and ended up with two kidney stones. I really think lc is the way I need to eat since I'm insulin resistant, have cholesterol issues and blood pressure is rising. How do I avoid kidney stones though? I drink a lot of water w/ lemon or lime in it each day, so that's not a problem. Ideas?

Thanks!

[Mitra]

The advice from the Drs Eades in Staying Power is that those with a history of kidney stones should take plenty of water and magnesium, as well as lots of low sugar fruits, and green leafy veggies, and that they should avoid calcium supplements.

They say that a low carb, adequate protein does not actually cause stone formation, but that the lowering of insulin levels can cause an existing stone to move.

Ottawa has lots of experience with kidney stones, so perhaps he'll have some useful insights to contribute

[Dodger]

I had kidney stones when I was eating low-fat. In the five years that I have been following low carb, I have had none.

[Ottawa]

I have averaged almost one a year for the last 40 years. More than one every 6 months for the last 3 years.
I have always had a problem with getting adequate water and for the past several years have had a stricture which caused me to hold my water longer causing precipitation of minerals within the kidney and Ureter. This was resolved this month with a TURP and the recovery is close to complete and the frequency should drop dramatically and possibly disappear.

If your stones are like the majority of stones (Calcium Oxalate) the main cause is lower pH (more acidic) blood, which leeches bone calcium. The calcium in the above mentioned stones is almost all bone detritus (sp?) from the leeching effect.

Causes of Lower blood pH
Not enough Water - leads to higher mineral concentrations in urine and blood.
Foods/drinks that lower pH - Most natural foods that are acidic do not cause lower pH after digestion, but carbonated drinks as well as naturally sweetened drinks along with most processed food contribute as well. You can lookup links relating pH of digest foods to help in choices. Another cause is genetic predisposition (others in your family get them).
Eating lots of meat protein without a calcium buffer (pills or green leafy vegetables).

Ways to avoid Calcium Oxalate stones (lower pH blood)
Drink your 8 glasses of water, more if you have caffeinated or carbonated drinks (phosphoric acid).
Have lots of salad or leafy greens along with red meat protein.
Take a Calcium supplement (up to 500 mg/day)
Use Chem Sticks (8 or 10 function on single strip) to check your urine if prone to stones (urine pH is directly related to blood pH although Urine pH is more acidic than your blood it is a good evaluator, Protein in the urine is often related to healing scar tissue from early and late stones, there are several other things checked with the sticks including Leukocytes (sp?) which can show early infection)

Once you have a stone and need to pass it (these don't always work)
Some teas help relax the ureter (Royal Breakstone-Chanca Pietra)
Drink lots of water (hard to do when you know urination causes pain and drinking more water causes more urination)

If you currently have a stone (most men do but they remain inactive in the kidney and do not pass) and it is causing severe discomfort that is not being tended to quickly there are ways to make your urine quite acidic (lower pH) for a short while, which works for most people and then you flush with distilled water afterwords to return to a balanced pH while flushing any residue. This only works for certain types of stones including Calcium Oxalate.

If you are in discomfort and feel that you have to wait too long for treatment (Lithotripsy, etc.) then send me an email and I'll send you the "recipe". (Randy.Holmes@nrc.ca) (several pages long but only two ingredients). It worked twice for me since I ordered it but not on my large stone (8-10 mm) although it does relieve the pain by dissolving some of the edges.
All the best.

I've been away for a while but will be joining the August Challenge to trim off about 20 pounds that I gained over the past 4 months that the medications, stricture and surgery caused as well as using more Hedonistic choices in selecting comfort foods while in discomfort.:o

[Relief]

gosh it's good to "see" you Randy! and best luck on losing the poundage!!

[Ottawa]

Great to see you as well Relief. In the past 16 days I watched more movies than I had in the previous 6 months.Other than walking or using the stairs everything else was off limits so much of it was just lying in bed or sitting for less than a half hour at a time.
Yesterday was a first and I went with my wife to see Hairspray. I am not a fan of musicals but it was fantastic and I am slmost back to normal. I have 5 more days off work, return for a week and then head out for a few weeks holidays where I can do things like swimming, simple weights, etc..

I did loads of baking as well since it is an easy, "standing" endeavor and have made Blueberry and rasperry dumplings 4 times in the past 2 weeks.
Some LC bread, cookies and lots of stuff on the BBQ. I'm glad to be "running on all cylanders" again especially with the added benefit of reducing stone formation.

[Karole]

Also glad to see you back, Randy. We have all missed you in the challenges !!

[Ottawa]

Thanks Carole - I find the Challenges help keep me "true".
Mitra some was water and I am down a few already and will try to trim 17 more in the next three challenges.

More water, no late snacking and back to workouts.

[StrongJazz]

VERY interesting info r.e. kidney stones, Ottawa -- I've been LC for the past 4 years but have been doing a lot of reading lately about PH levels. All of the info I can find on the topic seems to say that virtually every LC-friendly protein is terrible for you because it makes your body more acidic, and that we should basically subsist on raw vegetables.

I'm curious about the info you posted r.e. eating red meat with green leafy vegetables to create a calcium buffer -- is this necessary only for red meat (i.e, not for poultry)? Is this linked to the acidifying nature of red meat?

Also, have the Eades ever written about this PH-level issue, that you know of? I'd love to be able to read a pro-LC response to the PH-balance naysayers...

Thanks!

[Mitra]

StrongJazz, there was some info about pH in Staying Power. I'm just home from a few days away, but once I've settled in again, I'll look it up.

[StrongJazz]

Thanks, Mitra -- that would be great! Would love to know more about how LC may affect PH... (And happy settling back in!).

[Mitra]

The section I was thinking of is an answer to a question about the safety of cutting out carbohydrates altogether. It says that traditional Eskimos, who have almost no plant food in their diet do suffer a little bone loss over a lifetime, but that it's not a problem in the short term. They say studies show no bone loss on a meat based diet that also includes fruit and vegetables.

Meat, fish, egg and cheese cause an acid load on the body that, over decades, can weaken bones.

Before you get spooked about the wisdom of low carb dieting, recognize that all breads, pastas and cereal grains cause the same acid load that meat and hard cheese do; you won't spare your bones by going meat-free and filling up on bagels and oatmeal. The key is striving to balance the acid load with alkaline foods - fruits, green leafy veggies, colorful veggies or alkaline waters.

There's another Q&A giving more or less the same info in different words - meat and grains are acidifying, and the effects can be balanced by eating plenty of veggies. It's not specifically about kidney stones, but I hope it helps answer your questions.

[Ottawa]

I'm curious about the info you posted r.e. eating red meat with green leafy vegetables to create a calcium buffer -- is this necessary only for red meat (i.e, not for poultry)? Is this linked to the acidifying nature of red meat?

Sorry to get back to you so late. I was away a few weeks.

I could not find the link to pH effect on blood from ingested foods but most protein does have a positive increase in blood acidity. It was an online table of foods relating to blood pH.
If anyone can find it I would like to see it again. Foods that are acidic like citrus foods do not increase blood acidity yet most processed foods do cause an increas (more acidic/lower pH).
Red meats increases urea more so than other meats. My Endocronologist origionally suggested a Soy alternative but later mentioned it as well and suggested more vegatable sources for protein intake.

Most here seem to derive their protein from meat sources but very few have kidney stones. Part of my problem (last 15 years) may have been related to a urinary stricture which has been removed and the Urologist agrees although there is a genetic pre-dispostion as well.