Macronutrient Breakdown and Protein Requirements

[nolagina]

I just recalculated my minimum protein requirements (the old way) and it appears that the minimum requirement for me now is about 70g protein per day.

I also reviewed some of my PP materials and the Drs. Eades do not recommend that you go WAY OVER your minimum. They even state that it could impede weight loss.

I have been also looking at my BMR and TDEE to understand the appropriate caloric intake.

My BMR is around 1900 calories and my TDEE is around 2600.

Based on this information I'm trying to focus on keeping calories around 1650-1700.

However, also based on my concerns that I've been eating almost DOUBLE my minimum protein requirement (125-130g on average); I want to reduce my protein to about 80g per day.

Bottom line: I am considering the following macronutrient breakdown to help improve my weight loss.. (I want to get back to losing 6-8 pounds per month).

Fat 1170 cal 130g daily 70%
Protein 320 cal 80g daily 20%
Carbs (net) 160 cal 40g daily 10%

Has anyone made this type of change? Is 70% fat too much? How do you achieve that in your diet? Did you see improvements in obtaining more consistent weight loss?

Thank you in advance for your input.

[Mitra]

Those figures actually look fairly typical. It's not hard to get to 130g fat. If some of your protein comes from fattier meat sources, cheese, eggs, nuts... you can be there before you know it. If you're short, a bit of cream in your coffee, olive oil/mayo on your salad, butter on your vegetables etc will soon add up. 70% sounds as if you'd have to be drinking fat, but fat often comes concentrated, whereas protein and carbs are often in watery foods, and fat has twice as many calories per gram as carbs & protein, so it adds up more than you'd think. I don't get low fat versions of anything, but I don't have to go out of my way to get over 100g fat in the day.

[maxlharris]

What Mitra said.

But also, when you complicate things like this, you might be overthinking it and undoing the simplicity of the program. If you keep the carbs low, make your protein number, you should be fine on the fat. Don't eat low fat anything. Get the full fat versions. Eat real buffalo mozzarella. Eat nuts. Eat bacon and brie.

I tend to obsess. And I have found that obsessing over macronutrient breakdown doesn't serve me particularly well. If I track the protein and the carbs, that's about the optimal level for me.

Good luck.

[Gaelen]

Bottom line: I am considering the following macronutrient breakdown to help improve my weight loss.. (I want to get back to losing 6-8 pounds per month).

Hi, Nolagina.
What the others said...plus this:
If you started off the plan losing 6-8 lbs. per month, and now you're not losing that fast, there's more to consider than just what you're eating. You also need to take a look at what you're doing, how you're exercising if at all and where that can be changed up, and finally, at how long you've been carrying around the weight you're currently trying to lose.

I lost 8-10 lbs. per month my first three months on plan. Then my losses began to level out to 2-3 lbs. per six weeks for the next year or so. That comes out to a half-pound per week, but in reality, I didn't lose a half pound every week. I'd see-saw around 2-3 lbs for six weeks or so and then just lose it for good. That was weight I'd been carrying around for more than a decade. It had been around a long time and it didn't want to leave in a hurry.

Finally I dropped to about a half-pound loss per month. However, my blood work continued to improve, my strength improved and got smaller. It wasn't and isn't all about pounds on the scale.

You didn't get to your starting weight overnight...and you're not going to lose it overnight, or even at a constant rate, especially the longer you stay on plan.

[nolagina]

Thank you all for your response.. I'll try not to sound like a rant but I'm up against a wall right now and trying to figure out how to break through.

I am working to lose a total of 101-102 lbs. I have lost 53 of those pounds to date. I have a goal of achieving a 101 pound loss in 15 months. I am a very goal oriented person.

I do not want to spend 2-3 years losing this weight. It takes an enormous amount of focus for me to lose weight and it affects everything else in my life. I can't realistically focus 100% of my weight loss; 100% on my job; 100% on my spouse. So for 15 months I have told myself I will work to put 80% of my focus on weight loss and 20% on everything else.

So I need to achieve a consistent result of 6-7 lbs per month average. Then I need to begin a process whereby I can maintain on 125g carbs per day (a moderate fat, moderate carb, moderate protein plan). I'm using a tremendous amount of discipline to eat meat every day. So in order to maintain any weight loss I will need a higher carb level.

I currently exercise about 35-40 minutes 5 mornings a week. Usually this consists of uphill walking on treadmill (with progressive increases in incline) and walk/run intervals; and jogging.

I do strength training with a trainer two times a week. Because I can be obsessive about exercise; I want to have a routine I can stick with. In the past I have exercised 7 days a week with multiple exercise sessions per day. Of course, after a few months I've burned myself out.

I have been overweight for the last seven years. However I was steady overweight until the last 18 months before I started PP. Then I gained about 20 lbs in less than a year.

My bloodwork was good before I started losing weight; the only problem I have is blood pressure and that is getting better but not enough where my doctor will take me off the medications. So for me the biggest gain is weight loss.

I need to achieve consistent effective results.. So I must have as much data as possible to reach my goal in the proscribed time... I hope this board can help me get there. I believe one shouldn't have to go Kimkins crazy to achieve results.

[Mitra]

I do not want to spend 2-3 years losing this weight. It takes an enormous amount of focus for me to lose weight and it affects everything else in my life. I can't realistically focus 100% of my weight loss; 100% on my job; 100% on my spouse. So for 15 months I have told myself I will work to put 80% of my focus on weight loss and 20% on everything else.

So I need to achieve a consistent result of 6-7 lbs per month average. Then I need to begin a process whereby I can maintain on 125g carbs per day (a moderate fat, moderate carb, moderate protein plan). I'm using a tremendous amount of discipline to eat meat every day. So in order to maintain any weight loss I will need a higher carb level.

I have great sympathy with just wanting to get the weight loss done quickly, but just because you want it to go that way, and just because you like to set and meet goals, doesn't necessarily mean that that's the way the it will go. There are many factors that affect how fast you can lose weight - some you can control, and some you can't. Being older slows things down; so do some hormonal factors (thyroid, menopause, for example); it's generally slower for females; various illnesses and their treatments make it harder.

For many people, the way you eat to maintain your weight after you've reached your goal isn't all that different from the way you eat to get there. A few more grams of carbs, but nothing radically different (a carb level similar to your protein requirement is typical). So it really is far more useful to find a way to eat that you can sustain and that doesn't take over your life, than to find one that will take the weight off quickly. It certainly takes a lot of effort and energy to make the change and to find a new set of menus and a new way of putting a meal together, but once you've learned how to work the new rules, you can it doesn't have to be particularly demanding.

I hope you find a way through the maze that will work for you :)

[WakefieldWendy]

I would also question your premise, i.e. that you shouldn't greatly exceed your protein minimum. Higher protein, while maintaining calories, may be right for you.

[maxlharris]

Thank you all for your response.. I'll try not to sound like a rant but I'm up against a wall right now and trying to figure out how to break through.

It is hard. You're welcome to your rant. It's allowed. Maybe even encouraged if done right. You're fine.

I am working to lose a total of 101-102 lbs. I have lost 53 of those pounds to date. I have a goal of achieving a 101 pound loss in 15 months. I am a very goal oriented person.

I am a goal oriented person too. Congrats on what you've lost.
As a goal oriented person, it's hard for me to accept that I should only really set goals around the controllable. I can control whether I stick with the diet and whether I make it to the gym. I can't control when my body decides to dump weight. It sucks, but ultimately, processes beyond my understanding of control actually control whether the scale moves. It's hard to accept, but it makes an arbitrary future date a very tough goal to make. Especially with the margin of error around 101 lbs and having held most of it for 8+ years.

I do not want to spend 2-3 years losing this weight. It takes an enormous amount of focus for me to lose weight and it affects everything else in my life. I can't realistically focus 100% of my weight loss; 100% on my job; 100% on my spouse. So for 15 months I have told myself I will work to put 80% of my focus on weight loss and 20% on everything else.

I don't want to tell you how to live your life. It's not my place. But, I think the road to a sustainable weightloss begins with a plan that fits your life. And something that you can do forever, or minimally modify to do so. So, I don't think your 80%-20% is the best approach. You can go 100% on the weightloss, but have it be only 10-20% of your life. I think you can at least.

So I need to achieve a consistent result of 6-7 lbs per month average. Then I need to begin a process whereby I can maintain on 125g carbs per day (a moderate fat, moderate carb, moderate protein plan). I'm using a tremendous amount of discipline to eat meat every day. So in order to maintain any weight loss I will need a higher carb level.

I don't track the logic here. I get the first part, 6-7 lbs per month (I don't know how real that is, especially thinking about the last 20 lbs, but that's a different issue entirely). But I'm unclear on why you have this vision of a maintenance around a diet that is completely unlike your weight loss and centered on an arbitrary carb number. How do you know that 125 is what Dr. Atkins termed the Critical Carb Level for Maintenance? For most people, according to the Eades, the CCLM will be around the minimum protein recommendation, with 50% variance on either side.

I have a hard time relating to people who have a hard time with meat. There are a lot of non-meat protein sources (FWIW, I love the meat). Protein beverages, fish, eggs, nuts, cheeses, etc. Lots of ways to non-meat your way to protein numbers. But the meat can be very good if you're on the stick about how to do it. And you can be very inventive.

I currently exercise about 35-40 minutes 5 mornings a week. Usually this consists of uphill walking on treadmill (with progressive increases in incline) and walk/run intervals; and jogging.

So, dump the incline. Set it to 1%. Do High Intensity Intervals (google for HIIT or High Intensity Interval Training). You want to do something that looks like windsprints on a treadmill. All out for a period, then recover, then do it again. On the upside, you can cut it to 20 minutes. You'll get more benefit this way. I don't do the treadmill (too much competition for them at my gym), but I do the bike like this and have jump started loss for a while.

I do strength training with a trainer two times a week. Because I can be obsessive about exercise; I want to have a routine I can stick with. In the past I have exercised 7 days a week with multiple exercise sessions per day. Of course, after a few months I've burned myself out.

Maybe up this to 3 times a week. I would recommend Turbulence Training (you can google him). I get email from him twice a week. Craig Ballantyne maybe. At any rate, he has routines that are challenging, designed for people at various fitness levels, whole body, circuit training, designed for weightloss, serving a lot of women. It's good stuff.

I have been overweight for the last seven years. However I was steady overweight until the last 18 months before I started PP. Then I gained about 20 lbs in less than a year.

It's tough to lose in 1 year when took 7 to put on.

My bloodwork was good before I started losing weight; the only problem I have is blood pressure and that is getting better but not enough where my doctor will take me off the medications. So for me the biggest gain is weight loss.

Hrm. Your BP should drop to where you can get off meds. I wonder what else is going on (if anything).

I need to achieve consistent effective results.. So I must have as much data as possible to reach my goal in the proscribed time... I hope this board can help me get there. I believe one shouldn't have to go Kimkins crazy to achieve results.

So, this is the crux of it. Consistent effective results are all anyone wants. A sign that it's working, every day, week, month, etc. It's that holy grail of dieting. And it's about as mythical. I have hinted that I think your 6-7 lbs a month is maybe not based in the reality of your life. I don't know you, and I applaud setting lofty goals, but you want to make sure expectations are based in reality, otherwise you surely won't make them.

I think you can lose your weight. I dunno if it's gonna be done when you want it to, but if you stick to the plan (get protein, limit carbs, eat fat), you'll get there.

[nolagina]

Maxlharris,

I think I love you! :) Seriously, I appreciate your input and you have given me something to think about.... I truly and honestly value your reply and the thought you gave it...

I have decided that I probably need to relax a bit and enjoy the ride. I will do more of the HIIT. I want to become a runner so I'm trying to balance that out.

Right now, my schedule doesn't allow for 3 times a week strength training but next year I hope to find a job with less demanding hours and more flexibility so I can fit some more creative fitness into my life.

The 125 g came from when I was doing Weight Watchers about 3 years ago. I did a lower carb version. I did eat about 100-150g carbs a day and I lost 25 lbs in 4-5 months... Then I got a monster project at work and blew that weight loss away.

That worked well for me... Breakfast was 1c. Special K Protein; 1/4 c. strawberries, 1/2 cup 1% milk and Morningstar Farms strips or patties; Lunch was a <15g carb Lean Cuisine and a huge salad; snacks were either single serve microwave popcorn, fruit or yogurt and Dinner would be often whole wheat pasta and a protein and vegetables.

I definitely see that as a maintenance way of eating.

I see my doctor again in October. I'm hoping by then the BP will be where she will lower or take me off it.. She wanted to have symptoms of low blood pressure; I'm not having them yet....

My BP these days is generally 100-115/70-80... That's on the meds...

My mental state is improving and I'm trying to relax.. I'm so type A and driven so it's a bit of new way of handling something.. Weight Loss can't be managed like a software project... Hmm... maybe my weight is like a vendor; can't completely manage them either :lol:.

Thanks all, I'll keep y'all updated...

[Gaelen]

My mental state is improving and I'm trying to relax.. I'm so type A and driven so it's a bit of new way of handling something.. Weight Loss can't be managed like a software project... Hmm... maybe my weight is like a vendor; can't completely manage them either :lol:.

LOL indeed...one of the things I do is manage software projects (user acceptance testing.) Getting nine functional groups, four sites, and 75 people of different skills and attitudes to play nicely together, accomplish GLP quality user acceptance testing, and getting the vendors involved to produce what they need in time for the users to test is exACTly like weight loss, IMO. As Max said, there are only certain things about weight loss (and UAT projects) which you can control. In a software project, that's how much training you give in advance, how available you can be during testing, how much review is given to what's executed and who signs what. The rest of it? It's cat herding and high stakes stock trading at its finest. Maybe it will go the way you plan; far more likely, it won't because so many of the factors of testing are comPLETEly out of your control and dependent upon externals.

So relax, nolagina, and enjoy this venture of discovery of your body.

BTW, stress is NOT your friend when it comes to weight loss and building better health and lowering BP. Stressing about losing, or about not hitting a goal = elevated BP and staying on meds.

[WakefieldWendy]

That worked well for me... Breakfast was 1c. Special K Protein; 1/4 c. strawberries, 1/2 cup 1% milk and Morningstar Farms strips or patties; Lunch was a <15g carb Lean Cuisine and a huge salad; snacks were either single serve microwave popcorn, fruit or yogurt and Dinner would be often whole wheat pasta and a protein and vegetables.


If this worked for you, then maybe it is what you should do. It definitely isn't protein power, so you aren't likely to get many suggestions about this kind of approach to eating here.

You sound a bit like a yo-yo dieter. Pay strict attention for a while, lose weight, then lose the focus, gain weight. I'm like that too. The problem is that everything you describe suggests that you are not learning how to incorporate permanent changes to your eating. In particular, I'm talking about how you have very significant and time-centered weight loss goals, and how much attention this takes (and therefore how much it takes away from the rest of your life).

If one plans to make changes to how they eat for life, then the timing of the weight loss becomes much less significant. If, on the other hand, there is a huge amount of effort and attention in getting to a GOAL, then my prediction is that there will be significant difficulty once you get to maintenance. I am living proof that for some people, maintenance is actually more difficult that losing, because that focus and drive goes away. (The short version of my story is that I lost 88 pounds, flunked out of maintenance school, and gained 140 pounds - don't do that. Also, in my case, maintenance didn't turn out to be as easy as I had understood it would be in that I had to stay at 30-40 ecc - I wasn't ready for that).

There are a couple of ideas for how to make this take less energy and focus (after the first few weeks):

1. Eat the same breakfast and lunch every day (or choose from 1 or 2 things), or at least every workday. This removes so much thinking, and that leads to lower stress.

For example, I eat berries and cottage cheese, or berries/yogurt/protein powder every day for breakfast. I eat a low-carb frozen dinner with extra chicken (because there isn't enough protein in the dinner) every lunch. There are different flavours, so I don't get bored.

2. Experiment (say for a month) with a NEAN approach. Not Even A Nibble. If part of the "effort" is the stress of constantly saying no to yummy treats, then it is possible that you can reduce this by not engaging in a "should I or shouldn't I" decision making process.

3. Have goals that you are in control of. What you eat, how you exercise, whether you take your medications...

[nolagina]

If this worked for you, then maybe it is what you should do. It definitely isn't protein power, so you aren't likely to get many suggestions about this kind of approach to eating here.

I am not feeling the need to eat like this now.. But this is how I want to eat in maintenance. I believe, unless one has serious allergies or other issues, I should be able to maintain on 100-150g carbs a day.. I'm thinking a Zone type of plan.

You sound a bit like a yo-yo dieter. Pay strict attention for a while, lose weight, then lose the focus, gain weight. I'm like that too. The problem is that everything you describe suggests that you are not learning how to incorporate permanent changes to your eating. In particular, I'm talking about how you have very significant and time-centered weight loss goals, and how much attention this takes (and therefore how much it takes away from the rest of your life).

I admit this does sound like me... I have said I'm extremely goal oriented. I struggle to understand how ANYONE can lose weight without it being their overriding force in life. It takes a lot of energy to do this in my opinion. You have to THINK ALL THE TIME.

If one plans to make changes to how they eat for life, then the timing of the weight loss becomes much less significant. If, on the other hand, there is a huge amount of effort and attention in getting to a GOAL, then my prediction is that there will be significant difficulty once you get to maintenance.

If you are making changes to lose weight and keep it off, you need to see regular progress (at least I do) to keep going... Without that reinforcement, I get frustrated. I hate my body right now and I can't stand to see myself.. I need to get to a better place where my body looks better and I can then get the surgery I need to make it look even better! I'm 43 and I certainly don't want to look it!

1. Eat the same breakfast and lunch every day (or choose from 1 or 2 things), or at least every workday. This removes so much thinking, and that leads to lower stress.
I already do this.. Breakfast is rarely a problem for me.

2. Experiment (say for a month) with a NEAN approach. Not Even A Nibble. If part of the "effort" is the stress of constantly saying no to yummy treats, then it is possible that you can reduce this by not engaging in a "should I or shouldn't I" decision making process.

I don't go off the reservation either.. That is not an issue for me... I don't go carb-wild.. Probably alcohol is my biggest downfall but I will occasionally have a drink but I work to keep a balance. I'm not like a lot of people who stay on plan a few days and then "fall off the wagon."

3. Have goals that you are in control of. What you eat, how you exercise, whether you take your medications...

I understand.. I do think there should be a way to control weight loss; maybe I need to understand my body better.

[maxlharris]

I admit this does sound like me... I have said I'm extremely goal oriented. I struggle to understand how ANYONE can lose weight without it being their overriding force in life. It takes a lot of energy to do this in my opinion. You have to THINK ALL THE TIME.

So, I was cruising. I was pretty effortless, until I went to Italy. It's been difficult since (maybe a little before). But, from August 06 to May 07, it was not on the front of my brain all the time. You get there by breaking the bad habits (like eating out of vending machines) and creating good ones (having snacks at work, exercise, etc). It gets to the point where it's not easy, it's 90% thought free. It's just normal. The requirement for this is a plan that allows variety, improvisation, and is easy. For me, PP involves tracking 2 numbers and doing the gym. That's about it. It's really not that hard when it's part of the routine. The tricky part was in August and September, when I was breaking the old rituals and replacing it with the new ones. That took time. And patience. And forgiveness. And analysis. Now, I'm nearly back. I'll let you know.

If you are making changes to lose weight and keep it off, you need to see regular progress (at least I do) to keep going... Without that reinforcement, I get frustrated. I hate my body right now and I can't stand to see myself.. I need to get to a better place where my body looks better and I can then get the surgery I need to make it look even better! I'm 43 and I certainly don't want to look it!

Couple things.
1- If you need to see regular progress, measure a lot of things. Scale is one thing. It's a fuzzy metric. Tape Measure is another thing. It's also a little fuzzy. Body fat is another thing. Only God (and the expensive tests) know the true fat content of anyone. But, together, it's all ways to measure.

2- If you're 43, you might have to accept that you're gonna have to look 40+. You've done the time. Course, if you have the money, blow it on surgery. My watching of various programs on Cable suggest that elective plastic surgery to fight aging is a slippery, expensive, slope.


I do think there should be a way to control weight loss; maybe I need to understand my body better.

I agree that there should be a way to control it and better ways to diagnose what's up with stalling. When you find it, let us know.

[Mitra]

I believe, unless one has serious allergies or other issues, I should be able to maintain on 100-150g carbs a day.. I'm thinking a Zone type of plan.

If you want to eat real food (rather than bars produced to have zone-friendly macronutrient ratios), the zone requires a lot of attention to keep to the exact ratios. Not to mention that when I did the calculations, I found that it expected me to live on 800 kcals per day :eek: . Well, I'm sure I'd lose weight on that (even though I don't need to lose any more), but equally sure I couldn't do it for longer than one day :lol:. PP suggests gradually increasing your carb levels as you approach maintenace, until you find the level that works for you (if you cut your fat down a bit as you increase carbs, you might get to the levels you're hoping for, especially if you're fairly active). There are also other semi-low carb plans around that aren't as prescriptive as the Zone - or you could just experiment to find what works for you, and not worry about giving it a name.