Maintenance Ups and Downs

[Mitra]

I thought that rather than hijack Relief's thread, I'd start a new one for just chatting about how maintenance is going for all of us.

After gaining a few pounds at the end of the summer, I dropped back to intervention carbs for a couple of weeks. I went down three pounds the first week, then stopped. By the end of two weeks I was feeling totally exhausted, and had started spotting (which, as it generally has been, was accompanied by sacroiliac instability :( ). Τhis has happened before over the last year or so, but usually when there's been some physical or emotional stress, which there wasn't this time. Anyway, I brought my carbs back up to the level at which I've generally felt best, about 60g, because I felt that building up a bit of energy was more important than a couple of pounds. I've been back at 60-ish for a couple of weeks, and not regained any of the weight that I dropped, and I'm feeling much better.

All through this year, lack of energy has been a problem. When we first came home after the two months staying close to my MIL while she was ill, and when she died, I was totally exhausted. It was gradually getting better, but either by chance, or because I haven't got enough slack in the system to spare for weight loss, the start of this month was really hard. I don't know if it's to do with eating, or because I've been playing about with my supplements, but I'm feeling much better. Of course, my hormones are pretty fickle these days, so who knows how long it will last :lol:.

Weight wise, I'm at 116/117, and my LBM has held up - if anything it may have gone up a pound or two. I like to be 110/112, but the PP 22-28% BF range is 115-125 lb for me, so I suppose I'm actually at quite a good weight, just suffering from a reluctance to deal with not being 20 any more :o.

What's going on for the rest of you?

[Karole]

Hi Mitra, I didn't make a concerted effort to be careful with my carb counts over the holidays and had lots of company here which sort of changed my menus somewhat. But anyway, I weigh the same after a couple of days at intervention levels.

Now I want to get started adding a few carbs back into my diet so I can maintain my weight . I think I will try adding in a fruit one day, oatmeal the next and perhaps beans the next day. Those are the things that seem to have more appeal right at the moment. I am going to continue to measure and count on Fitday tho as I sure want to be aware of things if I start to "grow".

Does that sound like a good way to go to you?? As you know from previous talks, I am so afraid I will do as I did before and gradually let things get away from me to the point I will start gaining again and just keep going.

I think I will shoot for 45 carbs right now as I have been losing on 30 or less per day. How long do you think it would be before I would know if that will be okay for me? I know some of us can't tolerate anymore than the 30 or very close to that amount. ( I hope I won't be in that category, but who knows at this point) I would love to get up to 60, but if I understood correctly, I need to work up gradually to it.

Well, tommorrow I will start the increase and see how it goes. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Songwriter]

Wow, Mitra, are you a pro photographer? Those are amazing pics in your sig. Tell me how long you have been doing that, do you have fancy cameras, etc. My brother takes great pics, he is into it. Yours are exceptional. I think I would enjoy that. He just bought a new Nikon. A fancy remote controlled flash thing that has made a big difference. I had a gig last week and he stuck a flash on both sides of the room. I like the way it lit things up. It also produces incredible pics of bugs and flowers, etc.

I have been doing better, trying to lose a few pounds. I find my carb threshold is lower than what I had been doing. I don't count them but it's pretty low. Like 30 or less. That isn't much. I've been getting sleepy past lunch lately, that bugs me. But I did start a new BP med, so, that might have done it.

I wish I didn't have to take BP med but it looks like I will. I had been doing pretty good over past few months but it went up too high. I don't know why. No beer for past ten days. If it doesn't go down and I continue no beer, that will be a disappointment. I have hoped it was that. I don't like not being able to beat high blood pressure. I suppose maybe I abused it for too long. As in maybe 15-20 years. I am just now deducing that I have had it for that long. Labile hypertension. Sporadic. Will be fine for days and then go up for no reason.

[Mitra]

Now I want to get started adding a few carbs back into my diet so I can maintain my weight . I think I will try adding in a fruit one day, oatmeal the next and perhaps beans the next day. Those are the things that seem to have more appeal right at the moment. I am going to continue to measure and count on Fitday tho as I sure want to be aware of things if I start to "grow".

Does that sound like a good way to go to you?? As you know from previous talks, I am so afraid I will do as I did before and gradually let things get away from me to the point I will start gaining again and just keep going.

I think I will shoot for 45 carbs right now as I have been losing on 30 or less per day. How long do you think it would be before I would know if that will be okay for me? I know some of us can't tolerate anymore than the 30 or very close to that amount. ( I hope I won't be in that category, but who knows at this point) I would love to get up to 60, but if I understood correctly, I need to work up gradually to it.

Karole, that sounds like a very sensible approach. Staying Power suggests spending a week or more at each carb level, and increasing in increments of about 10g. The questions to check each time are:
Has your weight increased?
Has your waist size increased?
Has your blood pressure gone up?
Are your rings or shoes tighter from fluid?
Are you experiencing heartburn?

And the longer term things to check on are:
Has your blood sugar risen above normal?
Has your insulin risen above normal?
Have your triglycerides increased above normal?


Wow, Mitra, are you a pro photographer? Those are amazing pics in your sig. Tell me how long you have been doing that, do you have fancy cameras, etc. My brother takes great pics, he is into it. Yours are exceptional. I think I would enjoy that. He just bought a new Nikon. A fancy remote controlled flash thing that has made a big difference. I had a gig last week and he stuck a flash on both sides of the room. I like the way it lit things up. It also produces incredible pics of bugs and flowers, etc. Thanks, songwriter. I'm not a professional. I first bought a "serious" camera about 20 years ago. My husband (though we weren't married then) and a friend were both keen photographers, and when I went out with them I had to stand around for ages waiting while they took their photos. Our friend lent me a spare camera to keep amused so I wouldn't complain so much :). I took photos for a while, but gradually got out of the habit until last winter, when it gave me something relaxing to do during the stress of my mother in law's illness. The pictures I took then were with a Canon compact digital that I'd had for a few years, but as I was doing more, I decided to get a digital SLR, so I bought a Canon 400D (digital rebel something or other) earlier this year. I still use a compact sometimes, when I don't want to haul an SLR around. I bought the smallest SLR, because I'm quite small and prone to back and neck problems, so it was a compromise between getting a flashy camera and getting something that I would actually use and carry.

I have been doing better, trying to lose a few pounds. I find my carb threshold is lower than what I had been doing. I don't count them but it's pretty low. Like 30 or less. That isn't much. I've been getting sleepy past lunch lately, that bugs me. But I did start a new BP med, so, that might have done it.Personal carb tolerance levels do seem to be very variable - depending on genetics and health history.

I wish I didn't have to take BP med but it looks like I will. I had been doing pretty good over past few months but it went up too high. I don't know why. No beer for past ten days. If it doesn't go down and I continue no beer, that will be a disappointment. I have hoped it was that. I don't like not being able to beat high blood pressure. I suppose maybe I abused it for too long. As in maybe 15-20 years. I am just now deducing that I have had it for that long. Labile hypertension. Sporadic. Will be fine for days and then go up for no reason.Better to take the drugs if you need them. Hypertension isn't my problem, but I do suffer from respiratory allergies. I'd like to be able to give up antihistamines, but I hate not being able to breathe :lol: and once something sets off the allergies my whole system seems to get oversensitive - my skin will come up in red blotches from the most minor abrasion, or I'll get an itchy rash on the inside of my wrist for a few hours. Many of us have some problems that either aren't diet related or have reached a point where it takes more than diet to fix them.

[Ammy]

In November I sat at the TOP of my "allowed weight" then bypassed it by 2.5lbs on Thanksgiving. The really sucky thing is that I can't seem to BREAK it. Typically it falls back off, but not this time. So my "maintaining" is crapping out on me at the moment.

I'm going to do my form of "fasting" for a few days and see if I can't help things along. The worst thing about these extra lbs is that I FEEL so terrible. I feel bloated, I feel sluggish, I feel...CRAPPY. So I'm going to fix it.

It was 8 degrees last night and the wind was howling, but I bundled up and went for a walk. I refuse to "sit in my cabin" and get feverish! :razz: I don't mind the cold, and the fresh air felt SO GOOD in my lungs. So, I'm going to drop the 2.5lbs, then get back in the middle of my "allowable weight range". But most of all, I doing it to FEEL better!!! Christmas is coming, I don't want to MISS it because I am being a lazy slug!!

[Mitra]

But most of all, I doing it to FEEL better!!!This is one of those lessons that I need to keep being reminded of. When I first started LC, I felt much better, but over time, you get used to that, then new challenges come along, or the scales drift up a bit, and there you are, back to fixing on the numbers again. For myself, I realised that I could go down lower in weight, but I actually felt better if I didn't, and there wasn't any point in being that bit thinner if I was too tired to enjoy it. If you feel good, the rest is secondary.

[Karole]

Thanks for the info Mitra, I am going to copy those points you posted so I will have them at my fingertips at all times. I think I will just up the carbs to 40 instead of the 45 I mentioned yesterday , since that it what was suggested in Staying Power.

I did have a bit of oatmeal with cinnamon this a.m. but you know what--it wasn't as tasty as I had envisioned. Sort of disappointing , now I will have to try the beans and see if my taste for them has also changed. I may just stick to adding fruits and veggies in larger amounts than I have been enjoying.

Ammy, hang in there and you will get those 2.5 off and feel better too !!

[Mitra]

These are some notes I made on the Transition advice from SP:Transition Goals:
• Stabilise your metabolism
• Improve insulin sensitivity
• Shed last few pounds
• Further improvement in blood values
• Cement results & prepare for maintenance

Transition Carbs:
15g per meal (opt 5 for snack) = 45 - 50g per day
2 moderate or 3 small carb servings per meal

Maintenance Week 1:
25/15/15 + opt 5 for snack = 55 - 60g per day
2L/2M/2M + M

Maintenance Week 2:
25/25/15 + opt 5 for snack = 65 - 70g per day
2L/2L/2S + M

Maintenance Week 3:
25/25/25 + opt 5 for snack = 75 - 80g per day
2L/2L/2L + M

Maintenance Week 4:
25/25/25 + opt 15 for snack = 75 - 90g per day
2L/2L/2L + L

etc until you start to see adverse response, then drop back to a level at which you don't get any problems.
As you can see, the transition level they suggest is 45 to 50, in line with your original idea, but there's no problem with increasing more slowly if you feel more comfortable with that.

[Relief]

Karole--I found over the years that I couldn't add back very much of the carby things--like oatmeal or bread or even beans. I could eat more fruit and veggies and even enjoy the occasional peice of corn on the cob or a whole apple--things that I couldn't really have on the weight loss portion of the journey. I could also afford a few more high calorie ( though low carb ) endulgences like baked custard more often. but, bread, oatmeal, real sugar desserts and the like had to stay off the menu, for the most part. I would end up in addictland and always go way over my intented portion size--eventually off plan and gaining. Happened twice--once it took nearly nine months to get over cravings and BACK on plan--and then another 9 months to lose what I had regained.

My advice is to go VERY slowly with changes. and be very careful about adding back the high glycemic carbs. watch how you feel and eliminate immediatly ANYTHING that sets off a craving--and LEAVE IT off!! just my 2 cents!

[Karole]

Thanks, Mitra I will copy that to my other list too. I appreciate your help and ideas

I must admit I am very curious to know at what level I can maintain without increasing any of the bad stuff. I intend to increase the exercising a bit to mayhaps get to stay at a higher level than otherwise might be the case.

[Karole]

Hi, Relief--sorry I somehow missed your post when I added mine above. They were posted pretty close together I see. I did not mean to ignore you at all. I'm glad for any and all insight into this as I do find it a little nerve wracking. Things have been going so good for me on the losing cycle and I am afraid to release the controls, even a little bit.

I did get all the way up to 35 ecc yesterday tho !!:D

I"ll take your advice and go slow with the beans and oatmeal. I did have a little of the oats one day and they really didn't live up to my expectations so it will be a while before I will try that again. No cravings at least.

Seriously, I have been sick with a stomach virus or flu for the past 3 days and I dropped a little over 2 lbs from that. I will have to see if it comes back once I resume normal eating patterns again. Whew, it has been no fun and to top it off , I missed my granddaughters wedding during that period. I couldn't have even managed to get myself dressed , much less show up at the church. Thankfully today is much better. My daughter-the dgd mother- came down with this same thing, only she got sick that night after the wedding was over and done with. I know she is thankful for that at least.

[Karole]

Still at it, and my weight has stayed exactly the same on the scale. Since I am not trying to lose , just maintain, I am weighing each morning so I can see immediate effects of anything I have eaten. So far, so good.

We had planned to go out of town this week end and viist the kids in Ky. but we let the weatherman talk us into staying home. So far at least, he has been wrong as to the snow--just lots of rain. Thankfully no ice though. If all the rain had been snow we would have had a bunch of the white stuff !!

Anyway, my eating patterns would have been more of a challenge than they will be since we are staying home. I am planning on making some chili tomorrow and I am going to use red beans instead of the black soy beans I have been using. Won't know the effects til I try it. I hope I will be able to use them some as I do enjoy them every once in a while. I know Relief said she can't do oats and beans and breads, but the oats haven't seemed to increase my hunger or cause any fluctuation in my weight. I have had oats twice now--but never full portions--I'm afraid to try that.

[Relief]

good for you on your success--especially this time of year!!! so many carby temptations!

My goal over the holiday has been to maintain a stable weight. so far so good! first time in about 3 years I havent' gained a bunch from xmas cookies and fudge!

My strategy is to have plenty of legal versions of treats so that I can retreat to them if necessary. the best thing about the lo carb treats is that I can easily limit the amount I eat. one or two cookies and my " need" for an endulgence is statisfied! unlike the sugary thing where I'm NEVER satisfied til they are all gone!

so far I've got frosted sugar cookies, gingersnaps, and 4 flavors of choclate covered truffles and mint patties all made with chocoperfection chocolate.
Just knowing they are available is almost enough. or maybe a lot of the satisfaction lies just in the act of creating them. So much of my holiday always revolved around making fabulous candy ( I'm such a showoff!!!) so making fabulous low carb treats that taste amazing kind off does it--even if nobody eats them lol !!!!!!

(I will be making some of my traditional stuff--fudge and english toffee principally--but they will be going immediately to my Army daughter who is currently stationed in Iraq.)

anyhow--making it pretty good so far! weight has not changed since the beginning of November. I've had some swings after a couple of parties ( alcohol always makes me retain water for a day or two) but get back to baseloine pretty quickly. I'm pleased!

once the New year hits and routine returns I'm planning to get another 5 pounds or so gone.

[Mitra]

Deborah, I wish I found it easy to limit the quantity of low carb treats. If I eat dark chocolate, I can easily eat just one square, but if I make it into brownies, I just keep having another piece, whether it's low carb or high. The difference is that the high carb version makes me feel depressed, and the low carb one just makes me feel full. But I can't stop after one piece, whichever kind it is - so I have to limit how often I make that sort of thing.

I'm also hoping to stay about the same over Christmas, then maybe go down a little bit afterwards. My husband is planning to get back on track again in the New Year, so I'll probably end up losing a bit more anyway, just because we probably won't eat out so often, and the meal planning will be a bit stricter.

[Karole]

I remember this time last year so well !! I was soooo unhappy with myself and my weight, that I could hardly bear to look in the mirror. I really packed on more pounds in Nov. and December, and decided after Christmas I had to get a handle on things again. That seems so long ago now and I am so glad I got back to PP.

I haven't been much tempted by sweet things lately, I really like Lindt Choc. and have some each day, but I did make some of the chocolate coconut protein bars and cut them up into little squares like I used to do fudge at Christmas time. I will use that and also some of the peanut butter cups for my Christmastime candy this year.

I know this was on another thread-- but I have been busy reading the new Gary Taubes book and it is just fascinating to think of all the brilliant scientific minds that have "missed the boat" on the subject of our diet and health. I just feel so lucky to have found this place where there is help and support for any who need it.
Thanks folks.

[Mitra]

Karole, I keep seeing that ticker of yours going down! Whatever you're doing, I think I need to do it too :).

I went up about five pounds over Christmas (staying with my parents for two weeks). That all came off in the first five days back, and since then I've stayed around 117/118. I'd really like to see 112 again, or at least 115, but I know changes are likely to be slow, and as I'm not looking for a big change, a pound or two a month in the right direction would be fine, but wouldn't show this soon. So for now, I'll just keep things "normal" and not allow myself too many "off" meals.

After seeing what Relief and Carol found, I've been checking my blood sugar. During the day it is almost always in the 75-100 range (103 is the highest I've seen). But it's been about 60 every time I've measured first thing in the morning. That's probably why I felt terrible when I tried IF! And, since fasting is physiologically similar to very low carb, it may be why I don't feel great at ultra-low carb levels. I need to read up on the mechanisms for fasting control of blood glucose.

[Karole]

Hi, Mitra, I have been rereading the original Protein Power book as I have loaned out my PPLP and it is all I have to go by now. I noticed he said that to go on maintenance a person should have his blood pressure down and cholesterol numbers good. My bp is good these days, but only because I am still taking 2 meds for it. My cholesterol total was better than an earlier reading but still at 215 so I am wondering what you think. Will staying on the lower carb 30-40 carbs per day be better for me as far as bp and ch is concerned?? I don't need to lose more as I am 5 ft. 6in. and 135 is good for me.

Let me know what you think as to the bp and ch. I would love to drive them down with out meds or at least a lower dosage than I now take for bp. If losing more would do it okay, I can always set a lower goal.

[Mitra]

Karole, personally I wouldn't be bothered about a reading of 215 being too high as long as your ratios and triglycerides are OK - I'd think any unexplained changes would be more significant than the exact number.

I just looked at Life Without Bread, because they have a lot of graphs of how things change on LC diets. Their BP graph shows pretty much all the change happening in the first couple of weeks, so I don't think losing more weight will make much difference. The average change, for people not on any BP medication was a drop of 20 in the systolic pressure (the first number). Their group went down from an average 190 to 170. It would be hard to imagine people with those numbers not being medicated these days, which just shows how medical fashions change. When my mother trained as a nurse (in the 50s) she was taught that 100 plus your age was a "normal" reading for blood pressure. So now we all worry if we don't have the BP of a 20 year old! I'm not trying to discourage you from taking your BP meds, just saying that whatever you do with your diet and weight you might still need to take your meds.

If you want to stop going down in weight, you could do as the Eadeses suggest, and increase your daily carb intake by about 10g per day, staying at each level for a week to see if it has any effect. If your BP or chol react adversely and your weight is still going down, then you would need to look at staying at a lower carb level and adding more fat calories - more nuts or cream, or whatever fits in well for you.

Let us know how it goes.

[Karole]

Thanks, Mitra, I just had hoped so much for a big change in bp with losing the weight and all. But I do have a family history of it so there may be some other issue than weight causing the problem.

When I was growing up I remember that saying too (your age plus one hundred on top was fine) But, as you noted it is much lower these days and hopefully they know what they are talking about on bp.

I think the 215 is great myself as I have been a lot higher in the past but I know the doc will not agree. There was a great article at
www.businessweek.com (http://www.businessweek.com) that we all need to read concerning the statin drugs that are so readily prescribed these days . I have printed off a copy and will take it to the doc in April so he will know why I refuse the meds.

Well, if the main results are during the first few weeks then losing more probably won't be effective so I will just try the extra carbs per day again. Thanks again.

[Mitra]

Karole, the rapid change was for BP. Cholesterol took several months to fall, although the reductions were much smaller for people over 40. Just wanted to make sure I was clear that the two things respond on different timescales.

[Karole]

Got ya, Mitra. I do think I read some one, ages ago--possibly dvdmon, saying it took around 18 months for his levels of Cholesterol to drop. It may have been another poster, not sure. Anyway, we are all different and just have to see how things go for our own selves.

And, at my age, I'll bet the numbers won't ever be as good as a young person, no matter what I do diet wise.

[Karole]

Well, I have to report that I am maintaining as I did not have to change my ticker even one tenth after today's weigh in.

I have increased my intake of carbs a bit , but not really a lot (staying around 40 ecc) so I am wondering if I will need to stay low the rest of my life. That will be okay, because I am used to it and get plenty to eat, and I know when I do choose to have a day off plan I can always have it.
Anyway, one of this months challenge will be to get in lots of fruits and veggies so I will also be looking at new recipes to make sure I reach my goal on that.

Here's to a good month of enjoyable eating and maintaining my weight !!

[Relief]

Karole--that is awesome!! from someone who has never maintained her low weight even for a month--I'm either gaining or losing-- I can tell you-- it's HUGE! congratulations.

[Mitra]

I've never really stayed steady for more than a few months. This is my graph of monthly weight measurements since I started PP in 2003.
http://www.danam.co.uk/Images/PP%202008-02%20Weight%20Graph.bmp

[Karole]

Thanks Relief, now we'll have to see what happens.

I'm just so determined not to gain back all the weight like I did in '03. I am looking at this more from a health angle rather than weight angle this time, so maybe I won't slip up !! Gonna work on it every day!!

Mitra, I wish I had kept a graph of my weight so I could look back and see it. That was such a great idea !!

[Mitra]

Karole, I can't remember why I started it, but I find the long term graph helpful for getting a perspective - like whether I'm worrying about a meaningless wibble, or whether there's a long term change I really need to attend to. I can still worry about trivia and miss the big stuff, of course, but it does help ;).

[Parisienne]

I hope you don't mind that I join you. I believe that objectively I belong to "Staying Power" section even if I feel more like "Newbee" with my approx. 10 months of PP (however, I started low carbing after my Italian holidays in 2006). And - which is rather important - with the fact that I am eating mostly at < 30 EEC, with some Fri-Sat exceptions. I was reading this thread when I found Mitra's post:

I went up about five pounds over Christmas (staying with my parents for two weeks). That all came off in the first five days back [A's bold], and since then I've stayed around 117/118. I'd really like to see 112 again, or at least 115, but I know changes are likely to be slow, and as I'm not looking for a big change, a pound or two a month in the right direction would be fine, but wouldn't show this soon.

I could easily say the same, about believing that 'a pound or two a month in the right direction would be fine', still in my case, after this year Hannukah festival (which means 8 days of festivities) and the dinner of 31 Dec., +/- 6.6 lb (3-ish kg) I gained to 125/124 lbs (kept without the problem from the end of August & still losing) simply does not come off!! I don't know what I am doing wrong (I eat my proteins, keep < 30 EEC, drink water...), added some regular exercise which makes me feel great, but still I would like to be around 121 to feel on the safe side (especially that I apparently put on weight by simply looking at chocolate cake).

Any ideas? I read you were talking about "all meat day", do you think it could be possible with "all fish day" (I don't eat meat - sometimes I wonder if it is not one of the reasons)? Thanks a lot for your insight.

[Mitra]

You're very welcome to join us here, Adina.

For myself, I'm starting to think the best solution is to reset my target weight a bit higher. I'm at about 23% body fat according to various calculations, so obsessing about getting down to 20%, then having to be very disciplined to stay there may not be the best way to spend my time and energy. At 46, maybe I don't need to weigh exactly what I did at 21 :).

About having fish days - just remember that fish is a lot leaner than most meat, so you might do better to include some extra fat if you decide to try it. It isn't something I've ever tried, just that I saw Dr Mike Eades mention in his blog as something they do occasionally. You could expand the definition to include cheese and/or eggs if that works better for you.

[Parisienne]

Thank you, Mitra for your welcome & ideas about "all fish day". Could you tell me how much fat (%) should one have per day?

I think about doing all the calculations again, it takes some time as I have to convert everything to metric system. It makes sense not to dream about impossible numbers (all in all it is about our health and numbers are only something superficial). The thing is that for me it is a completely new experience, contrary to you my weight at 21 was far from being ideal (around 143 lbs). I am 34 y.o. and I've never been so fit in my life (thanks to Shadow's encouragement, I believe :)) & I really don't know how much more I should/could lose for my "ideal weight".
I would also like to lower my TCh & LDL numbers which are pretty high (the ratios are still fine, but they are on the verge) - I hope to imitate Karole on this. My next lab test is at the end of February so we'll see.

[Mitra]

There isn't a fixed amount of fat to eat. I usually end up about 55% but others may be higher or lower.

You can easily use an on-line calculator like this one (http://www.eskimo.com/~cdickens/FatCalculatorF2.html) which takes measurements in either cm or inches to calculate your current body fat level, but in the end, how you feel is more important than the numbers.

[Parisienne]

Thanks a lot for the link, I'm going to use the calculator right now!
OK, so it is +/- 24.5% and according to PP book, I am in the range for my age (21-27%) but still I have a long way to go!

[Mitra]

I've been experimenting with shaking things up a bit again. I seem to have been feeling tired and down forever, so I've been reading around, and looking into adrenal fatigue. I hate these trendy "diseases," and I haven't been tested - the NHS just doesn't work that way, but I just kept coming back to how well that one seemed to fit. Anyway along with lots of things that I was already doing, like sleeping and avoiding sugar, the advice seemed to be to eat more often, so I added in a couple of snacks between my main meals. Actually, the snacks aren't much different from the meals, they just don't have proper names ;). I didn't divide my carbs into five rather than three, I just kept to the same 20g or so per meal. It also ended up that my calories went up by around 300 per day. Not a great surprise when you add extra meals and don't take much off the existing ones. So I went from about 60g carb per day to about 100g, and added extra calories, about a month ago. I've been feeling better - more energy and better mood, and haven't gained any weight :cool:. Maybe there's something in Taubes's argument that if your hormones are in line your body will spend extra energy rather than storing it!

I'm still watching carefully and hoping the improvement continues, but I'm pleased so far :).

[Shadow]

Wow, Mitra, that is fantastic :D :thumbsup: :D!!!!!

[Mitra]

Thanks, Shadow :). Keep your fingers crossed that it lasts!

[Shadow]

I'm crossing my fingers and toes for you :nod:!

Now if I could just find what works for me :rolleyes: :lol: ;)!

[Mitra]

I think what you need is a nice long time to relax, with no stress and no demands on you :). Sorry I don't know how to arrange it :(.

[Shadow]

Mitra - Relaxation sounds divine :nod:! But until that happy day, I'll just keep plugging along and be thankful it's not worse than it is ;).

[Karole]

I haven't posted here in ages, but thought I would post as a way to document my progess at maintenance.

Mostly I had problems with actually adding in enough food to keep from losing more and I did get down to 131.2 before I finally got up the nerve to force myself to add in more carbs. I want to be under 135 but not down that low so my goal is anywhere inbetween . Today I am at 133.2 and have been bobbling around that number for some time so I feel like I am really doing maintenance now.

I weigh each morning as I don't want to press my luck and gain above 135. I haven't been logging in much on fitday lately, but will start that again, if I do go to 135. That's my plan and I'm stickin' to it.!!

[Mitra]

That's so good to hear, Karole. It sounds as if it's working well for you.

It's the approach I aim for, but at the moment I'm hovering at the top end of my OK range, and not really getting anywhere with my efforts to get back to the middle. Mainly because every time I make a bit of progress, I go on holiday, or we have visitors, and I overdo it enough to undo the good work :rolleyes:.

[Karole]

I know what you mean, Mitra, we are having company again tomorrowfor a few days and then in a couple of weeks we'll be going back to the trailride. It is never ending. I have really been surprised each time I get home from a 10 day ride and find out I haven't gained a ton of weight!!

[Bones]

Wow! It's been a while since I've been here. I don't know if any of you will even remember me, but it's nice to see some familiar faces still around. I got down to a weight I was comfortable with and maintained for about a year. I found myself dealing with some unexpected stress the last couple of month, started reaching for junky comfort food which quickly threw me back into addiction mode, and now I have myself back under control. I have come out of these past few months 15 pounds heavier, but determined to get back to where I was. I have been losing and regaining the same few pounds these past few weeks...blah! I know that I need to be be stricter with myself because the last few pounds are the hardest to lose, but I'm having a difficult time getting myself into the mental frame of mind needed to do it. How are all of you doing with those last few pounds?

[Mitra]

Hello, Bones, yes I remember you.

I don't really have an answer on the last few pounds question, I'm afraid. I was around 110-112 lbs for a year or two before my mother in law's illness and death (which involved us being away from home a lot etc). That was at the start of 2007. I went up a few pounds then, and have been hovering around 116-119 ever since. I've managed to stay below 120, but not to get back to where I was before. I don't have thyroid problems as far as I know, but am pre-menopausal, and any time I restrict either carbs or calories enough to lose weight, I get tired, and have more menopausal symptoms. I'm just accepting that for now my body wants a few more pounds than my mind would like ;). I'm not overweight where I am, and it's not worth having worse health just to fit in a smaller size.

[Shadow]

Hi, Bones - good to see you :). Hitting menopause threw me off a little along with two very stressful years in a row, but I think I am back in control and pretty much where I want to be - knock on wood ;). I have to be a lot more careful of what and how much I eat than I used to be - but I'm telling myself I've come too far to go back now, ya know :rolleyes:. Because it definitely doesn't get easier - either as we age or as we repeat the cycle!

[Karole]

Hi, all, I am still maintaining too and so far so good. I dipped down to 131 and like Janet, I wasn't feeling energetic so I decided to up my intake a bit. I am now dauddling (sp) between 133 and 135.

So far what has worked for me is to weigh each morning and if I am ever at the 135 mark I immediately start logging into fitday.com and keeping my carb intake at 30-35 daily. So far, knock on wood, I have got up to 136 and got it back to 134 within 2 days.

I suppose this sounds too controlling to some, but believe me I am terrified of drifting to far off the beaten path as I did that once before--had great success at losing and then when I got to the maintenance part I flubbed up big time and gained right back to where I was when I started.

You are so smart to nip it in the bud and only have the 15 lb gain. I know 15 lbs is aggravating, but it sure is better than over 40 pounds to have to re do. So good job at getting with it again.

[Bones]

So far what has worked for me is to weigh each morning and if I am ever at the 135 mark I immediately start logging into fitday.com and keeping my carb intake at 30-35 daily. So far, knock on wood, I have got up to 136 and got it back to 134 within 2 days.

I suppose this sounds too controlling to some, but believe me I am terrified of drifting to far off the beaten path as I did that once before--had great success at losing and then when I got to the maintenance part I flubbed up big time and gained right back to where I was when I started.

You are so smart to nip it in the bud and only have the 15 lb gain. I know 15 lbs is aggravating, but it sure is better than over 40 pounds to have to re do. So good job at getting with it again.

It doesn't sound too controling to me. Some of us need to be extra diligent. A stitch in time saves nine applies here...a pound in time saves nine. My only caution to others is to be careful about how often they weigh themselves if they allow what the scale says to determine their mood for the day. I'm very objective about the scale and use it to gain information; it doesn't control my day. You're doing a good job!

[Bones]

Hi, Bones - good to see you :). Hitting menopause threw me off a little along with two very stressful years in a row, but I think I am back in control and pretty much where I want to be - knock on wood ;). I have to be a lot more careful of what and how much I eat than I used to be - but I'm telling myself I've come too far to go back now, ya know :rolleyes:. Because it definitely doesn't get easier - either as we age or as we repeat the cycle!


I always hear about that menopause thing, which is why I want to have a really good handle on my eating habits before that hits, especially during times of stress. It's difficult to lose/re-lose weight with a thyroid problem; I can't imagine how difficult it is with menopause added in. Well, it sounds like you're doing great!

[Bones]

Hello, Bones, yes I remember you.

I don't really have an answer on the last few pounds question, I'm afraid. I was around 110-112 lbs for a year or two before my mother in law's illness and death (which involved us being away from home a lot etc). That was at the start of 2007. I went up a few pounds then, and have been hovering around 116-119 ever since. I've managed to stay below 120, but not to get back to where I was before. I don't have thyroid problems as far as I know, but am pre-menopausal, and any time I restrict either carbs or calories enough to lose weight, I get tired, and have more menopausal symptoms. I'm just accepting that for now my body wants a few more pounds than my mind would like ;). I'm not overweight where I am, and it's not worth having worse health just to fit in a smaller size.

Isn't it amazing how 10 - 15 lbs. makes such a difference? I suddenly found myself not being able to wear my clothes and had to buy new clothes. Like you, I feel okay where I'm at, but I felt great where I was; it felt "right"... I felt completely comfortable in my skin. I really want to get back there, but if I don't, I'm not going to be devastated about it.

[Karole]

Talking about the scale addiction thing-- when I was losing I only weighed myself once a month as I could easily get into a funk if I bounced around and didn't keep on a downward spiral--and let's face it --not many of us don't have ups and downs on the scale. Anyway I forced myself to stay off the thing while losing.

Once I got to maintenace I started weighing each day and my only response is to take action if I get to my outer limit. As you said, a stitch in time....

Objectivity with the scale is good--its just a tool for us to use and can surely be a hindrance if we let it control our emotional well being. Some folks give up and quit based on the figures on their scale and that's sad.

[Omlette]

I know I'm not in maintenance, but i wanted to voice my opinion on the scale. For me, I use it as a daily tool. I know there are going to be daily fluctuations, so I don't let it ruin my day. I use it as a guide. I will reevaluate what I ate if it went up, so that I can make adjustments for the next time I encounter those same foods. Or I have learned what causes a reaction for me. (water gain)

You all are such inspiration.

[Karole]

That's the way it should be used, Om, -- as a tool to make your plans with. Good job with it !!

I think it just gets to some of us and affects how we feel about ourselves, and I had to let the scale go while I was in the losing stage of things. Sometimes I would get on the scale 3 and 4 times a day !!!:eek::eek: :o:oWhy on earth??? :confused::confused::confused: So I hid the scale in the basement for a month. (Too much trouble to go down there and dig it out.) Ah, the games we play.:rolleyes:

[Bones]

That's the way it should be used, Om, -- as a tool to make your plans with. Good job with it !!

I think it just gets to some of us and affects how we feel about ourselves, and I had to let the scale go while I was in the losing stage of things. Sometimes I would get on the scale 3 and 4 times a day !!!:eek::eek: :o:oWhy on earth??? :confused::confused::confused: So I hid the scale in the basement for a month. (Too much trouble to go down there and dig it out.) Ah, the games we play.:rolleyes:

I can definitely see how that was causing you problems! I knew a lady who would weigh herself at least 10 times a day...and it never helped her. I have heard of some people getting rid of their scales and only getting weighed when they went to their check ups at the doctor's office. Depending on how the scale affects you, you need to do what works best for you.

[Benay]

. I achieved my goal weight in Sept 2007 then had episodes of “magical thinking” of just this one weekend won’t hurt me and by September 2008 had regained 20 pounds. At the end of October I decided to get serious and try to lose these 20 pounds and have not been able to do so. I have even tried Atkins induction program for the past 3 weeks, trying to stay under 20 ECC and have managed to hold my carbs
down to 30 on average. I was excited to see at the beginning of the third week I had lost a pound, then another and this morning I have regained both. Back to where I started 3 weeks ago or the same as when I started in November. For the past month I have been averaging just under 30 ECC, 1882 calories. (I use Diet Power to track what I eat and analyze it. I weigh daily.) I am taking all the suggested supplements that aid in weight loss that Dr Mike recommends. And here I am 4 months later back to where I started. I am very discouraged. My physician is not a low carb advocate and although my thyroid was tested last summer as being low borderline, he will not consider thyroid supplementation, so I take kelp. I do not drink any sweetened diet beverages but lately I have been eating protein bars with a count of 10 gm carb. Might they be the problem? I know I am eating too much fatty meats which increases my calorie count, but I get hungry on low fat meats like chicken and fish. I exercise to the degree possible for my disabilities. I am very discouraged. As I say, this has been going on since the end of October. Obviously, carbs are not, or don't seem to be, the problem.

[gitfiddle]

Benay, many of us have come to the conclusion that the sugar alcohols in the commercial protein bars are a problem to weight loss. I know I avoid them. There are recipes on the board for bars and trail cookies that might serve as convenient, take-along substitutes. You might do a search on "protein bars" and collect a little information. Some also avoid dairy products and/or preservatives.

In my opinion, the fatty meats are beneficial. Dr. Mike has a couple of blogs lately that address why it can be harder to lose quickly the second or third time around. I think they're within the last three weeks or so, but I can check later. I hope you find some new information that helps you!

Come back and let us know.

[Mackay Rippey]

I weigh my self almost every day. I find it helps keep me on track.

After cutting down on carbs for a year, I can't stand the taste of the low carb "food" bars anymore Blech!

[Benay]

Gitfiddle, since I have only been using the protein bars in the last week as meal replacements while traveling, it does not explain the last 4 months inability to lose at 30 ECC or less. I have read all Dr Mike's posts -- log on daily to see whats new. I have read the blogs on fatty meats and so that's what I have been eating.

Mackay, I weigh daily too. That way I keep on track and more honest with myself.

Other possibilities please.

[Ammy]

You say you're eating around 18xx calories.
What is your height/weight? Maybe you are not eating enough? Or too much?

What does a typical menu look like for you?

[Benay]

Amy I am 5' 7" at 190. I hit my goal weight of 170 in September of 2007.

Typical day's menu:
Breakfast: 3 large eggs pan friend in butter with or without Jimmy Dean turkey sausage patties (2) or on alternate days 3/4 egg beaters with 1/3 cup shredded cheese in butter with or without sausage

Lunch: Pork chop aprox 5 to 6 ounces, or hamburgher patty about 6 ounces with melted cheddar one to two ounces

Snack: (if I have one) either 2 ounces deli salami with 2 sticks of string cheese and 5 olives or 5 to 6 celery filled with nut butter (that's where carbs come from)

Supper: usually a large (7 to 9 ounce) rib/T-Bone or flank steak broiled with a cesar salad made with 2 to 3 cups romaine and full fat cesar dressing and Parmesan
or as an alternative if not too hungry then just the cesar salad with oven oasted chicken about 6 ounces.

Lots of water and at least one cup of green tea in afternoon sometimes 2. Coffee (half decaf half full caffeine) in the morning only before breakfast.

I am trying to keep carbs down and keep fats and protein up. I tend to eat more of the same when I am hungry.

Calorie count depends upon size of meat portion and fat content of meat.

Any ideas? Thanks.

[Ammy]

Well, I'm 5'6.5" and right now I'm 199, so we're not TOO far apart.

Looking at what I eat, and what you said is a typical day for you...I struggle with the idea that you're only getting 1800-1900 calories?

The amounts are large and the cuts fatty, so are you sure you're only having 1800-1900 calories?
I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying *I* can't seem to get my cals that low when I'm eating those (yummy) foods in those amounts.

[Benay]

Amy, I gave you the kinds of food I eat. Some days portions are smaller than others, some days no snack, some days only two meals. On statistical average with no cheating (since I am trying to find out why I am not losing I see no sense in cheating on myself) for the past week my calories were 1908; for the past month it was 1882 and the past quarter 1759 but that was when I was trying to keep carbs below 50 ECC. ECC for the past week was 30, for the past month 38.5 and for the past quarter 37.4. The carbs are at a low level but not under 20 ECC.

[Ammy]

Hm...what is your protein minimum?

I learned that when I only MEET my minimum, I'm not getting enough and when I super-exceed it I am getting too much food.
For either case I don't lose weight.

My minimum is in the 90s. But in order for me to lose I need to be above 120 but under 170 on a daily basis.

[Benay]

Hi Amy, my minimum is 93 by my the PP calculations (the original PP not PPLP). Last week I averaged 154, last month averaged 141 and past quarter averaged 125. During all that time, my weight has not budged.

[laughingW]

Other possibilities please.
Have you had your iodine level tested? Kelp is a weak sister compared to some of the supplements out there. An ND instead of an MD might be more help.

I find that too much protein stalls me and I do better on the PP minimum and more Groves-like with the protein and fat. One formula I like has a maximum of .5 times your ideal body weight in pounds, for protein grams per day.

Can you do strength training with your disabilities?

If you check with your intuition: do you feel like your insulin is stuck a little too high from some un-carb source, preventing the flow of stored fat? Or is it something else and you don't know where to look?

If it's the insulin I would look at protein and stress. They both stimulate adrenals.

[Benay]

Hi LaughingW, no I have not had my iodine level tested. Just the thyroid. What is an ND? Naturopath?

What do you mean "Groves-like." I do not understand.

To tell you the truth I have no idea where to look. I am following all the low carb advice out there on plateaus and this is a beaut. I even tried parisite cleansing as someone said in another forum that weight loss can stall from having worms/helminths. So I did that cleanse. No result. Then there was another that said we need to cleanse our livers because we eat so much protein, so I did that, no result. My only thought is that thyroid is triggered too low but how to ratch it up? (I have all the symptoms of low thyroid.)

I do some strength training but Dr Mike's posts lately are leaning to the position that exercise does not help us to lose weight, although it does redistribute. My waistline remains at 33 1/2 to 34 -- it varies -- and my hips are also the same (large) so I am not reconfiguring either. I had hoped cutting way down on carbs would do the trick (as all the books predict) but that hasn't done that either and I am running out of ideas. Unfortunately I get hungry periodically and I do eat snacks to help that but that too doesn't always work. I try not to let myself be hungry as I tend to become ravenous and eat the entire refrigerator. Good days and bad days.

I will try to work out your formula for protein intake. If it means cutting calories way down then I know that is not sustainable, for me, for the long term.

Thanks for the ideas.

[laughingW]

Hi LaughingW, no I have not had my iodine level tested. Just the thyroid. What is an ND? Naturopath?
Yes, naturopath. I think Dr. Eades has a couple of posts on the importance of iodine.


What do you mean "Groves-like." I do not understand.

Barry Groves is a low-carb expert in the UK (Britain). He and Dr. Eades do not agree on how much protein; He advocates topping off the protein at a lower level than Dr. Eades, and filling up the calories with fat so you're never hungry.

My only thought is that thyroid is triggered too low but how to ratch it up? (I have all the symptoms of low thyroid.)
That was why I suggested the strength training. Not for burning calories but for waking up your metabolism. Also, I have heard that too low of carb, for some people, can make their thyroid slow down. Have you tried going all the way up to 40, the allowed amount of carb on PP intervention? And are you counting ECC? Your carb count could be 60 if your fiber is 20 and that might be more thyroid friendly.

My waistline remains at 33 1/2 to 34 -- it varies -- and my hips are also the same (large) so I am not reconfiguring either.

I agree, what a beaut of a plateau. Your body is certainly saying, I am at equilibrium.

Unfortunately I get hungry periodically

This tells me your body is not releasing stored fat so good. Duh, that is what you are saying....

and I do eat snacks to help that but that too doesn't always work. I try not to let myself be hungry as I tend to become ravenous and eat the entire refrigerator. Good days and bad days.
Honestly that sounds like something is keeping your insulin high. The only other source I've heard of ravenous hunger is from working up an appetite and you're not doing that.

I will try to work out your formula for protein intake. If it means cutting calories way down then I know that is not sustainable, for me, for the long term
No no no! You don't have to cut calories way down. Replace the missing protein with fat like some butter on those veggies. Hunger bad!!!

Thanks for the ideas
Best of luck. Our job throwing out ideas is way easier than yours. :)

One more thing. A nutritionist I like, Byron Richards, has an article on Oprah's thyroid problems which explains some thyroid things. Or is too much info. Warning: he sells supplements and his talk will reflect that perspective.

http://www.wellnessresources.com/health/articles/oprahs_thyroid_problem_explained/

[Benay]

Thanks laughinW. When I first started back on PP "seriously" last November -- meaning daily weighing and entering all foods eaten in the computer which no cheating -- I was trying for 55 ECC a day. I have been aiming lower and lower on the ECC as nothing had happened (yes I calculate carbs less fiber for my ECC)

I read the article on thyroid, it is an interesting take on thie issue.

As a result of these posts, I have gone back to PP and looked at my lean body mass calculations. According to the Eades, at my age I can carry between 22 and 30% fat for a total weight between 170 and 193 so it looks like I am within that range right now. I would prefer to be at the lower range, however. I am carrying 30% fat at the moment. Maybe that's where I should be, but oh my I would prefer not to have to buy new clothes when I just bought new clothes to fit my new 170 pound body. Sigh.

Appreciate your ideas. I will look at how to reduce protein while increasing fats and holding carbs constant. I sure don't want to have to go on a macadamia nut diet.

I will look for those insulin blogs of Dr Mike's again.

Thanks again.

[Ammy]

No no no! You don't have to cut calories way down. Replace the missing protein with fat like some butter on those veggies. Hunger bad!!!


yes...cutting calories is not at all what I was hinting at...the "redistributing" sounds MUCH better and something you can maintain/sustain.

[angel]

What is a macadamia nut diet? Thanks

[Benay]

Atkins suggested in either Diet Revolution or New Diet Revolution that in order to break a serious stall like mine (8 months) try eating only macademia nuts for 3 days. Try for a total of 800 calories. In other words 90 percent fat 10 percent protein. Lots of water. The mere thought makes me gag. Atkins was a firm believer in the notion that to break a stall one must increase the fat content in the diet while keeping carbs at below 20 ECC and moderating the protein.

[maxlharris]

Benay:
That is not an accurate description of the fat fast, as described by Dr. Atkins.
First: 1000 calories daily, not 800.
90% fat, 10% protein.
Mac Nuts are an acceptable food on the fat fast, but neither required nor the exclusive content.

This is a better description of the practice:
http://www.low-carb.com/atarfatfa.html

I should also note that Dr. A did not suggest, to my memory, the Fat Fast as a stall breaker. It was suggested as a tool for the extremely metabolically resistant to get started, the way Induction was used to get most people started on his program.

Here's something you might eat on a fat fast:
http://www.low-carb.com/fatfastparfait.html
1 8 oz package of Regular Cream Cheese
1 cup Hula Princess Macadamia Nuts*
Heavy Whipping Cream
Expert Foods Mousse Mix*
No calorie sweetener such as Splenda or Stevia*
Singing Dog Sugar Free Vanilla Extract*
Several small serving bowls or parfait dishes

1. To make the nut layer: Crush Hula Princess Macadamia Nuts to a medium fine consistency.

2. To make the cream cheese layer: Whip package of cream cheese with an electric mixer and slowly add heavy whipping cream untill you reach a mouse like consistency. Stir in sweetener and Singing Dog Vanilla extract to taste.

3. To make the whipped cream: Combine 1/4 cup of whipping cream with 1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract and sweeten to taste. Whip untill doubled in volumne but still soft. Add 2 teaspoons Expert Foods Mousse Mix and whip untill thick but not stiff. Thin if neccessary with a little cream.

4. For each serving dish - start with a layer of crushed mac nuts in the bottom of the dish, and alternate with cream cheese mixture. Top with whipped cream and a few whole macadamia nuts. Chill thoroughly and enoy!

Make a little over 8 servings.

I think you could eat this as a hedonist, on PPLP.

[Benay]

Thanks Max. I stand corrected. Always nice to have someone around who takes the time to look things up rather than rely on memory.

[maxlharris]

That said, people have used this to break stalls, even if it's not what Dr. A devised it for. For me, it would have to be a pretty long stall that I had tried a lot of other things to break before I went to 1000 cals a day of mac nuts, brie, cream cheese, heavy cream, tuna salad, caviar, avocado, and hard boiled egg yolks. Of course, I think you could fit duck confit in there. Here's the stall breaker... make yourself an 8-10 leg pot of duck confit. Protein shake for breakfast, duck confit (1 leg) for lunch and 1 for dinner. Carbs very low, fat pretty high, protein adequate... That's a luxy way to up the fat content.

[Mitra]

I think chicken liver parfait would work too. Also taramasalata (as long as you don't do one of the versions that has potato or bread in it). Foie gras? Bearnaise sauce? Lots of ways to get high fat :).

[maxlharris]

Pate is listed in the Atkins book as an acceptable fat fast item. I imagine you could find a lot of different luxe foods to go with close to zero carbs, very high fat, and minimal protein. Egg yolks are on the list, so I suspect that hollandaise would work, as would bernaise. Two -aises I like about a million times better than mayonaise.

[Belfrybat]

I don't have access right now to PP or PPLP, but if I remember correctly, the "fat fast" is not a part of PP. In Staying Power, the Eades have a 7 day boot camp to help get off a few pounds (or inches). Since they dumbed down that book, they don't provide actual ECC counts, but the menus look to be around 20 ECC a day and reasonable fat (not super high). My personal method of dealing with weight gain since I've been in maintenance is to go on a three day "Thin so Fast" regimen. Even though it is an older publication and I realise the Eades don't really support it any longer, there's lots of wisdom in the book for fast safe weight loss. I find it very helpful to get off a few pounds gain when I blow maintenance.

I think Dr. Atkins intended the fat fast for those who are still trying to lose weight, not for maintenance. In Atkins for Life, he recommends dropping to a lower carb level to lose a few excess pounds, not doing a fat fast.

[Benay]

Well, here I am again, truly in maintenance although I would prefer to have lost my 20 pounds that I set out to lose last October (see all my previous posts in February on this thread for my history so I don't have to repeat myself). This morning I weigh 187. For the past 2 months, I have kept my calories at or below 1500/day (I use Diet Power to monitor my progess/lack of progress) my ECC at or below 30. My weight fluctuates between 186 and 190 . I weigh daily. For those who like stats from the computer program here they are:

Past week calories 1284
Fat 89.1
Pro 96.1 gm
Carb 31.1 gm

Past month calories 1208
Fat 78.2 gm
Pro 97.8 gm
Carb 18 gm

Past Quarter 1579 calories
Fat 110 gm
Protein 108 gm
Carbs 29 gm

I have been reducing calories by reducing fat and have, at last, stopped gaining weight. When I first expressed my concerns about not being able to take off the 20 pounds brought on by falling off the wagon, I was not curtailing my fats and was indeed eating fatty cuts of meat for an average daily calorie range of 2,000 to 2,500. And I was gaining weight despite all the guru's saying we can't possibly gain if we keep our carbs low. Sigh.

I read Dr Mary Enig's coconut diet book where she said that the women on her diet lost weight on 2500 cals/day. I tried using coconut oil and continued to gain.

I am still trying to figure out why I am not losing weight and am disappointed that I am only able to maintain on less than 1300 calories/day. I see no sense in cheating on myself as I am trying to figure out what is going on that contradicts what all the low carb books say. So I keep meticulous records (what a bore).

So far the only thing that makes sense is: "we are all different and what will work for one person does not necessarily work for someone else."

Thanks for listening to my rant.

[SandyHanson]

How frustrating for you. I know I hate it when I don't get the same results that the experts and other participants say happen so quickly and easily. Although I'm not having difficulty losing weight, I wonder why it's taken me almost a year on PP to see improvement in my blood sugar and blood pressure when I see others who get results in days or a few short weeks. I guess all we can do is stick with it and keep tinkering until we get the program custom tailored for outselves.

Good luck Benay!