Trying to be Low Carb Vegan

[donutz r evil]

I want to learn how to be a vegan on a low carb diet. I have had success losing weight on a low carb diet eating meat but when I try vegan the weight jumps back on.

My problem is that there are several periods of the year where I must eat vegan for spiritual reasons. Right now is one of those 40 day periods. I know how to be a regular vegan but is there a "low carb vegan for dummies" resource out there somewhere?

I was trying to use soy protein shakes and tofu or TVP for my protein source but I read on another thread that soy has problems. What are the problems with using soy.

[Gaelen]

Welcome, donutz r evil. :)

Probably my most reliable source for vegan low carb ideas is Cyndi Norwitz, and her site: http://www.immuneweb.org/lowcarb/

You can do PP as a vegan, but you will be restricting your protein sources a great deal. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but it does mean you will have to be vigilant in ensuring that you get in your protein minimums, and in recognizing that all of your protein sources include some level of carbs. My rule is that I don't consider it a protein source unless it has at least as many grams of protein per serving as carbs--and more protein than carbs would be better.

You can safely look to nuts and seeds, soy, wheat gluten and small quantities of lentils and certain beans for vegan prtotein sources. While some people are very concerned about eating soy in any form, generally less processed and fermented varieties are things that have been fine for me. Also, for years, soy protein isolate (from GNC) was my protein powder of choice...I only switched to whey protein powder when they started adding ace-K as the artificial sweetener to the soy protein. :( They had been using stevia. So read the labels.

If you are either soy or wheat intolerant, it will be very hard to get your protein minimum from the vegan protein sources that are left. But if you can tolerate both soy and wheat, you should be fine.

What is your protein minimum, and which PP books have you read?

[donutz r evil]

Many years ago I read Protein Power and skimmed Atkins.

As far as I know I don't have problems with soy or wheat. I'm glad to know there is not a general problem with soy. I'm not up on all the lingo; what is ace-K.

Is tofu okay?

The fasting rules of my church (Russian Orthodox) allow me to eat shell fish and on special days regular fish, especially during Advent. Lent, in the springtime, is much more strict. But shrimp and lobster break my budget.

The web link you gave is very informative. Thanks.

donutz

[LisaS]

Orthodox fasting is tough on PP but possible.
If you will go the protein power/shake route for a lot of your protein, you can consider yourself covered there and primarily use non-starchy veggies and fruits to fill in the rest.

You might like to mix it up and not have all-soy all the time. You can get non-soy vegan protein powder if you look around - hemp, pea are examples. they don't taste quite as good, but in Lent ... you can make do.

Giant salads with oil & vinegar on oil days. On non-oil days use things like guacamole to dip veggies in or thin out for a salad dressing, and be sure and have nuts and olives to keep your fats up for PP.

Be sure and indulge in the fish on fish days to give your system a break. The little salad shrimps are not that expensive and are good sprinkled in salads or made into a "shrimp salad" if you are using something like Nayonaise (if you don't consider that oil).

Things like a stir-fry w/out oil and cauliflower rice work well, as do soups w/out pasta and things like vegetables in a mole sauce (works best on an oil day but you can do it without) or in a curry sauce.

From a PP point of view, I'd avoid the grains, especially flour products - and if you are going to have starches, go with beans, lentils, squash rather than pasta & rice & bread. For example, a plate of veggies with no-oil bean dip & guacamole to dip the veggies in would be my choice over a PB&J sandwich.

If you also watch your calories and keep them a little below what you were on before (smaller portions/fewer calories are also part of the fast, right), you should be able to maintain your losses, even if you don't lose as fast as in non-fasting periods.

I'll also PM you.

[LisaS]

ace-k is a non-sugar sweetener

[LisaS]

if you need another resource for recipe ideas, this site (http://www.fatfreevegan.com/) is from a follower of (primarily) Fuhrman's Eat to Live program - which is low-fat vegan, with limited grains. It might give you ideas for non-oil days if you have run out of them. Just watch for use of flours and starches as they sneak in sometimes.

[laughingW]

Lisa I agree Fuhrman is worth a read. Because he limits starches he's almost like a stealth low carb plan. Protein comes from tons of greens, unlike other plans that go to grains/beans when moving away from animal food.

He's the one that had me looking up the data to see if 100 calories of broccoli really does have almost equal protein to 100 calories of beef.

Problem is, one has to eat a ton of that herbiage stuff and pay attention to individual amino acids if done long-term (not the 40 days we're talking here)

[Gaelen]

LisaS, those are terrific ideas and a great link; thanks!

Donutz r evil, I've forgotten the exact parameters of what is considered shellfish by christian orthodox dietary rules, but if I remember correctly scallops, mussels and oysters qualify as shellfish for christian orthodox fasting purposes. If they work for you, check them out--they are my shellfish of choice these days. Scallops are wonderful and the smaller ones are very affordable fresh or flash frozen. I can get fresh mussels for around $1.50/lb in season, but they only go up to $2.50/lb. in the off season. Also, in season they are often available shucked and flash frozen for about $4/lb. (more to the pound without the shells, so just as cheap as fresh.) When I see those sales, I stock up to the limit of my tiny freezer. And while I like fresh best, canned oysters (brined, no oil) are around $1.50/can all year round here in the northeast (Seanet or Oceana brands). Langostinos or crayfish are also shellfish, but much less expensive than lobster or shrimp. So I have shucked mussels in the freezer and canned oysters in my pantry pretty much year round, and I'll pick up fresh langostinos or crayfish whenever they are at the fish counter.

I know squid's classification is iffy depending on the faith...it's not considered shellfish by jewish orthodox rules but I've forgotten the christian orthodox rules. But if you can eat it, squid is cheap and tasty and full of protein.

I do not eat much seitan these days (the protein created from mixing wheat gluten with water into a dough and then kneading it into 'wheat meat'), but if you can tolerate wheat, seitan can be a helpful protein choice on days when you have to avoid fish or shellfish, can't use oil and want to limit or vary your soy consumption.

[donutz r evil]

Thank you Gaelen, LisaS, and laughing W for the suggestions. I've posted to a few other discussion boards and received limited response. It's great to know there are people who understand what I'm trying to do. I was beginning to think I was asking the impossible but with what you have given me I believe I have a good chance at living within the guidelines of a religious fast and stay on my diet.

I don't know anything about Dr. Fuhrman. Would it be a good idea to read one of Dr. Fuhrman's books? I found "Eat to Live" on Amazon that he coauthored with Dr. Mehmit Oz. I just know I can't handle a lot of carbs. Fifteen years ago I followed the McDougall high starch very low fat plan and gained weight before discovering PP and low carb eating.

donutz

[LisaS]

I don't think you need his book and you might be confused/put off by his philosophy on things which isn't the same as Drs Eades'. I'll PM you his basic plan - basically it is low-fat vegan limiting/eliminating starchy veg or grains. As I said, it isn't a bad approach for your vegan days - better than the high-starch emphasis of McDougall (me too in a former life).

[Mitra]

I don't have much to add to the extensive suggestions Gaelen and Lisa have made, but I just wanted to mention quorn as a possible additional protein source. It has very little flavour of its own, but unlike the soy-based meat substitutes, it soaks up flavours very readily, so works for anything with a flavoursome sauce.

[LisaS]

Sorry to say, quorn isn't vegan. Egg whites and dairy are also on the ingredient list. But if you are doing a lacto-ovo vegetarian plan it does fit in nicely. Or if you don't mind that these animal products are way down on the ingredient list

[Mitra]

Oh, thanks Lisa - I was lacto-veggie when I used to eat it, and had forgotten the small print.

[donutz r evil]

Is the Glycemic Index useful in selecting my veggies?

[Gaelen]

Is the Glycemic Index useful in selecting my veggies?

Bottom line, I'd say its helpfulness varies. ;)
The glycemic 'index' doesn't really address how your body will process the carbs.
Glycemic 'load' (different from index) tries to do that, but there are a lot of variables in computing glycemic load, and to me they make a simple thing more complicated.

You might try searching Dr. Mike's blog for his posts on glycemic load vs. the straight glycemic index. They made a lot of sense to me--in one, he compared glycemic load to measuring body fat percentage with immersion or calipers and glycemic index to body mass index charts based on height and weight (that don't take into account sex or age or lean body mass.)

If it were me, I'd just count the carbs in the vegetables, and go from there.
I know that I personally can tolerate small amounts (1/2 cup servings or so) of cooked root veggies like parsnips, or tubers like yams, white potatoes, taro, without incident. But I can also tolerate similar sized servings of beans and legumes. You can also probably get away with NOT counting any carbs present in raw green leafy veggies, although I do count those carbs when they're cooked.

Also, if you can get daikon radish, it cooks up pretty much exactly like white potatoes, at about 1/4 the carb count--try Asian grocery stores if your supermarket doesn't carry it.

[tammay]

Hi donutz r evil (they sure are, aren't they ;) ).
I'm not strictly doing PP but I am now trying to do a vegan low carb diet. It took me a while to come up with a menu I could live with, but now that I have, I'm really liking it, as it's making it possible for me to eat vegan, which I've wanted to do for a while, without resorting to a lot of carbs (good or bad).

Here's a typical day
Morning: tofu scramble, herbal tea
Mid-Morning: 1 oz nuts
Afternoon: Beans (try to stick with edamame, both for the low carb content and because I actually love the flavor more than other beans) and veggies sauted in a little oil; 1/2 cup berries for dessert
Mid-Afternoon: Protein Shake made with silken tofu, soy milk, soy protein powder, flavorings
Evening: Salad with vinigrette and avocado, low carb vegan fudge made with nut butter, cocoa powder, and sweetener

My carbs usually average to about 60-80 a day, depending on what veggies and beans I use, so that's a bit high for PP.

I've also tried Fuhrman and it's a good plan, although I don't consider it low carb, since it pushes lots of fruit and beans (which is what made me stop). Also, he's very much in the "added fat is evil" camp although he does allow for some fat, like an ounce of nuts and a bit of avocado.

Hope that helps with ideas!

Tam