Large breakfast experiment

[Belfrybat]

For the past year I've been doing PP but following some principles from Dr. Bernstein since I have diabetes. His plan calls for 6-12-12 ECC, which was too low for me, so I increased it to 10-20-20, the lowest level I've found does not trigger tachycardia. It actually worked out more like 10-15-15-10 since I like a snack. But my blood sugars continue to rise in spite of starting Lantus late last year. I've gone from 6 units to 12 since Christmas and still had morning fasting levels close to 100.

I remember Dr. Mike, at one point, recommending getting more carbs earlier in the day than later. Then this week, I've been reading The 30 Day Diabetes Miracle, and they use the formula, "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and dinner like a pauper." Even though "30 Day" is a high carb vegan WOE, they get great results in lowering BS. Eating more at breakfast is the opposite of what Dr. Bernstein recommends, but since my BS tends to to higher in the afternoon/early evening, I decided to experiment a bit. For the past two days I cut out snacks :(, ate a large breakfast, "normal" lunch, and a very light supper, while keeping to "lowish carb" and PP protein recommendations.

I've been pleasantly surprised at the results. Breakfast the last three mornings has been a mixture of Scottish oats, soy grits, and flax meal with two poached eggs and butter with a few berries (18-22 ECC/25 Pr). I feel like I'm cheating! I am stuffed when finished and it keeps the growlies away until lunchtime. Actually, yesterday I didn't eat lunch until 1:30 because I just wasn't hungry. My BS raises 15-20 pts. but drops into the 90's by lunch. Lunch has been oven roasted veggies or large tossed salad w/ dressing, grilled meat and berries or a peach (18-20 ECC/35 Pr), and supper was either a fruit-based protein shake or a mixture of cold meats, cheese, raw veggies w/ ranch dressing (12 ECC/25 Pr). Morning BS has dropped into the 80's, and afternoon BS is only raising 20-25 points, but dropping by bedtime to around 100. This morning fasting was 74, so I will reduce Lantus this evening.

I don't know if these results will continue, but I'm happy with them so far. I do miss the afternoon snack, but not because I'm hungry. I have tea around 4 pm. (I'm English --it's ingrained in me) and miss having a munchy to eat with it. But that's a small price to pay for improved blood sugars.

The problem is I don't know why this is working. Dr. Bernstein recommends a very low carb breakfast due to dawn phenomena, and that makes sense intuitively. It also makes sense that a light supper would help keep overnight BS lower. If anyone has any comments, I'd be grateful.

[Ammy]

Aw BC...if it's working, then just GO for it!! :nod:

(don't you love it when I get all "scientific" and everything????):p

[Missy]

yeeeeeeahhh. I second Amy. Good for you Bat! :D

[gitfiddle]

The problem is I don't know why this is working. Dr. Bernstein recommends a very low carb breakfast due to dawn phenomena, and that makes sense intuitively. It also makes sense that a light supper would help keep overnight BS lower. If anyone has any comments, I'd be grateful.
BC, I'm so glad that's working for you! I've read both of the persuasions and I think you have to do what works for you body.

I was having some Dawn Phenomenon and it has disappeared since I don't generally eat a late dinner any more. When I do on occasion, it doesn't come back. I also stopped taking Actos and it took about two weeks for my body to adjust.

I've always been an advocate for a good breakfast and I've noticed as time passes that too much at night just leads to a fitful sleep, which is probably a digestion problem. I don't think I could do oatmeal even with protein because it does spike my blood sugar. Sad, but well worth the better health in trade.

I also think that allowing time between meals or snacks allows the beta cells to rest which allows them to fabricate more natural insulin. I try to go until I'm actually feeling my sugar dropping before I eat, and that's usually in the mid-nineties.

I think everyone has a theory and it boils down to "your science experiment" which takes some time to tweak. What is frustrating is when the results are different even though the method hasn't changed. Then it's back to square one.

[laughingW]

Perhaps you're hooking better into your body's particular circadian rhythm of insulin and cortisol. How is your sleep, typically?

I read in "Lights Out" that too high insulin late in the day shifts a whole cascade of hormones so they are off-sync. If insulin is too high too late, melatonin is off, then prolactin is off, then your morning insulin and cortisol is off.

(Light is what triggers the circadian part, or daily highs and lows)

[Belfrybat]

Aw BC...if it's working, then just GO for it!! :nod:

(don't you love it when I get all "scientific" and everything????):p

Amy - yes, I love it! Keep the science up.

BC, I'm so glad that's working for you! I've read both of the persuasions and I think you have to do what works for you body....

I also think that allowing time between meals or snacks allows the beta cells to rest which allows them to fabricate more natural insulin.

Carole-thanks for your thoughts. I agree about not eating as often seems to be helping a lot. Since I've been following this tweaked WOE, morning fasting is around 90, afternoon and evening BS is in the high 90's. I also seem to be developing a bit of a tolerance in that my BS doesn't rise quite as high if I eat off plan (not that I'm planning on doing that regularly). I had a few bits of cobbler Tuesday night and BS did not rise as much as I'd expected.
I am absolutely amazed I can eat oats. I even tried Muesli yesterday morning, which is a mixture of raw oats, nuts and dried fruit. BS rose a bit more than with steel cut, but not bad and dropped to 96 by lunch. My favourite continues to be steele cut oats/soy grits/flax meal mixture w/ butter and salt and pepper. Reminds me a bit of grits which I absolutely love.

Perhaps you're hooking better into your body's particular circadian rhythm of insulin and cortisol. How is your sleep, typically?

I read in "Lights Out" that too high insulin late in the day shifts a whole cascade of hormones so they are off-sync....

Interesting. I might be sleeping a bit heavier since shifting carbs earlier in the day, but it's hard to tell since it doesn't cool down until after midnight so I'm restless until then.

The strange thing is I've never been a breakfast person and am quite happy to skip it. When I was playing around with IF, I really didn't miss breakfast on the fast days. If I eat a mainly protein breakfast, I get hungry late morning, but the oats keep me filled until 1 - 2 pm. I think overall since the oats keep me satisfied for so long I'm eating less. No further weight loss yet but I think that will come. I hope that will come.

[Omlette]

I am a breakfast person, but I have a bad dawn affect. For me, I don't like to eat right when i get up. I started thinking the other day, that maybe the reason i don't like to eat right as I get up is because my BS is up from the dawn affect.?

Glad you got yours figured out.

[Belfrybat]

I am a breakfast person, but I have a bad dawn affect. For me, I don't like to eat right when i get up. I started thinking the other day, that maybe the reason i don't like to eat right as I get up is because my BS is up from the dawn affect.?

Glad you got yours figured out.

Just goes to show each of us has to tweak the WOE to meet our needs. I have a moderate dawn phenomena, and if I don't eat within an hour or so of getting up, my BS will continue to rise until I do eat.

Since followng the "eat early, fast late" principle, my morning bgs. are in the high 80's/ low 90's, and I've reduced Lantus back down to 8 units. I don't actually fast in the pm, but eat very light and no longer snack after 6:30. All I can say is it works for me.

[nrobles]

I understand the english have "tea" with something to munch on. Have you tried Dr Bernsteins' cheese puff "bread"? I've experimented with several types of "american" cheese slices. Some have too strong a cheesy taste but you can find a brand that suits you and apply whatever topping is appropriate. They can be cut into little sandwiches. I use them as hamburger "bread" and as "croutons" on salads. They are crunchy and do the job. You just place a slice on wax paper in the microwave for 50 secs and voila, lo carb bread! Next I.m trying "pizza". Good luck.

[nrobles]

I just downloaded Banting's "Letter on Corpulence" I was astonished that so long ago somebody with problems of obesity would try a low carb diet (though he certainly liked his sherry), He lost a great deal of weight and his medical, physical problems vanished along with the (parasite) of his fat, Interesting he calls excess fat a Parasite. I love it. He followed his doctors advice, a Dr William Harvey, and repeatedly states that anyone going on his diet should first consult with his physician. This "Letter" should be read by all low carbers as it adds a historical footing to our way of life.

[Omlette]

Just goes to show each of us has to tweak the WOE to meet our needs. I have a moderate dawn phenomena, and if I don't eat within an hour or so of getting up, my BS will continue to rise until I do eat.

Since followng the "eat early, fast late" principle, my morning bgs. are in the high 80's/ low 90's, and I've reduced Lantus back down to 8 units. I don't actually fast in the pm, but eat very light and no longer snack after 6:30. All I can say is it works for me.

I think that part of my dawn effect problem comes from me eating late. Even if I get supper cooked early, I am usually the last to eat. Last night I was finishing my dinner at 9:30. My bs this morning was 124. It was 122 when I got ready to eat. These 2 numbers were take 4 hours apart. I got up at 5 and did not eat until 9.

One good thing is that what I ate for breakfast only caused my bs to go up to 126 at the 45 min mark.

I have started trying to have a protein drink within an hour of me waking, but I didn't get to this morn.

I have been giving some serious thought to giving up dinner and having a protein drink then. I could drink it while I am tending to the kids and cooking supper for my DH. Doing this after having a pretty substantial "snack" at 5'ish.

[Belfrybat]

After almost 3 months of following this principal of eating, I have to say it works for me. On Tuesdays I attend a Bible Study where we have a meal around 7 pm. On that day I eat a lighter breakfast and lunch. Even with being careful and staying on-plan for the evening meal, my bgs. run higher the next morning.

The other thing I've discovered in eating very light in the evenings is I am losing weight easier. Not fast, but it's a steady downhill climb rather than uphill with the same calories and carbs ingested.

Nrobles, for tea, I usually like a bit of sweet -- either a half slice of flax bread with sf jam, a couple of squares of dark chocolate, or a bit of fruit. I love the cheese puffs and often nuke a square cut into 9 pieces as a base for dips. Have you tried using Borden's Swiss cheese? Very good.

The Banting book is a good read--I encountered it several years ago. I was so impressed he could drink so much claret and still lose weight. But back then, drinking a lot of wine with meals was standard.

[nrobles]

Great news. I decided to go all the way the other day when I was really craving sweets. I had the cheese puff bread with cream cheese and sugar free fruit preserve. That was excellent! But, I only plan to do this occasionally lest I become "addicted". I just read an excellent review of low carb by a spanish author from Cordoba, Spain. "Arguments in favor of Ketogenic Diets". He mentions carcinogenesis and the studies on cancer and the potential benefits in cancer patients. It can be gotten at Internet Journal of Nutrition and Wellness. I'm still at 179lbs amazingly! My goal of 170 is nearing completion!