Ex-surgeon says plant-based diet reverses heart disease

[Songwriter]

Oh, my, another Ornish. I have heart disease and I sure want to beat it! It's a bit disturbing that we have such opposite views of a disease. I do exactly the opposite of what this guy says... he says fat is the culprit and Eades, Taubes, Kendrick, Groves say that it's the opposite... fat is good! I follow this group but I do admit, it shakes my faith a bit when something like this happens.

I wonder how the people in his book reversed heart disease with that diet. Although, I have not read the book, so, I don't know much about it.

I'd love to see Dr. Eades' blog on this doc's new book. If anyone has pull, tip him off to write about it!

If you have an opinion, fire away.

Forgot the link...
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2008/06/exsurgeon_caldwell_esselstyn_e.html

[laughingW]

... he says fat is the culprit and Eades, Taubes, Kendrick, Groves say that it's the opposite... fat is good! ...
If you have an opinion, fire away.
Some people DO do well on that sort of regimen. Doesn't mean ALL of us have to.

I figger, in one view it's about *excess.* Someone with heart disease, there is excess clogging the heart. LC says it is excess carbs. LF says it is excess fat. Either way, the person who gets healthier and reverses it, finds a way, by removing the excess one way or another.

For me it also comes down to who is a good role model for you. LF plant-based people I have seen have terrrible skin tone and poor musculature. Not something I want. Whereas LC people or paleo or whatever, have this glowy skin and lots of animal magnetism (if I'm allowed to use such an outdated expression!)

Plus what you like to eat. If I had to eat like a chicken fish or cow, instead of eating the chicken fish or cow, I would shoot myself.

And finally, what a drag to get enough good fat and protein via plant foods. I believe it is lack of quality fat and protein, and the effect on nervous system, that leads plant-based people to have the "stinkin thinkin" they can sometimes exhibit.

[Belfrybat]

Actually a vegan diet, done correctly (lots of veggies/fruits, moderate legumes, and very few grains) does work. The problem is compliance and cost. I was sent a book called the "30 Day Diabetes Miracle" which is vegan and the authors claim most people can actually reverse diabetes by following their regime, which also includes moderate exercise. It was well researched and the authors have been treating folks for 25+ years. I have no doubt they are correct, but in looking at the recipes, I know I could not stick to their program more than about 60%, so why try? Expecially since I've discovered a WOE that I have 95% or better compliance with and is helping me control the diabetes.

[James L]

One million years ago, long before widespread agriculture, most human beings were not eating a plant-based diet. All the evidence that I am aware of indicates that the evolution of our digestive system has been such that it still does best on a hunting-based diet. And by "does best" I mean that it works the best in breaking down the "hunting-based" foods that we eat and converting those foods into the nutrients that we need to stay healthy and live long, productive lives.

[Roadstr]

Hi Bill,

I got a new doc about 1 1/2 yrs ago. The first thing he told me before getting blood testing was read Robert Kowalski's "The New 8-Week Cholesterol Cure" and come back with the lipid results in 6 weeks. I followed the diet of limited saturated fats to 8-16 grams a day, ate oat bran muffins and pancakes that I made and stayed away from white flour and sugar. The blood test results were 140 cholesterol, 80 for LDL, 41 for HDL and 66 for triglycerides.

So, it's not that saturated fats are bad, it's the combination for fats and carbohydrates that cause lipid numbers not as favorable. AND I'm not saying that 140 cholesterol is favorable, I think 180-200 is a better range. I experienced more aches and pains in joints and muscle with low cholesterol.
My doc doesn't have a problem with eliminating high glycemic carbs and sugars while increasing fats. I told him what I was doing and he gave me a handout on what to eat and not. It's unlimited meat, fish, chicken and oils, low glycemic veggies and eliminating flour, sugars... well you know, it's PP.

Anyway, now you know how getting good lipid numbers is done on a low fat diet. If my cholesterol comes in at 200, LDL at 100-120 and HDL at 55-65 on PP I'll be a happy camper.

Oh, my, another Ornish. I have heart disease and I sure want to beat it! It's a bit disturbing that we have such opposite views of a disease. I do exactly the opposite of what this guy says... he says fat is the culprit and Eades, Taubes, Kendrick, Groves say that it's the opposite... fat is good! I follow this group but I do admit, it shakes my faith a bit when something like this happens.

I wonder how the people in his book reversed heart disease with that diet. Although, I have not read the book, so, I don't know much about it.

I'd love to see Dr. Eades' blog on this doc's new book. If anyone has pull, tip him off to write about it!

If you have an opinion, fire away.

Forgot the link...
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2008/06/exsurgeon_caldwell_esselstyn_e.html

[mrfreddy]

my guess about this guy's diet, as well as Furhman's eat to live diet, and perhaps even Ornish, is that they do work, not because they elimate fat, as their promoters believe, but because they also limit sugar and starch intake (as much as that's possible on a plant based diet).

It also might work because, by limiting oil as much as possible, you remove the problems of eating excess Omgea 6, excess vegetables oils, etc.

Of course, you can achieve all of these benefits by following a high quality low carb diet, and you don't have to deprive your body of the high quality protein and fats that you need. And you dont have to be hungry all the time! And you dont have to suffer the sagging skin, poor muscle tone, etc. etc. that you see everytime Ornish's face shows up in the media :razz:

[Roadstr]

my guess about this guy's diet, as well as Furhman's eat to live diet, and perhaps even Ornish, is that they do work, not because they elimate fat, as their promoters believe, but because they also limit sugar and starch intake (as much as that's possible on a plant based diet).

It also might work because, by limiting oil as much as possible, you remove the problems of eating excess Omgea 6, excess vegetables oils, etc.

Of course, you can achieve all of these benefits by following a high quality low carb diet, and you don't have to deprive your body of the high quality protein and fats that you need. And you dont have to be hungry all the time! And you dont have to suffer the sagging skin, poor muscle tone, etc. etc. that you see everytime Ornish's face shows up in the media :razz:

I agree with your speculation of the benefits and the results that it might work by decreasing the amount of omega-6 fats and to carry that one more step is to say that the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fats will probably decrease while saturated fats are at a lower ratio to other fatty acids... maybe a good thing.
I doubt that most people following a low carb eating plan know what their ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 is let alone the percentage between the three major categories of fatty acids. Maybe that's why diets are so popular; i.e. "eat this stuff and less of that stuff and don't worry about it."