Thinking about starting PP

[JFourth]

Hello,
I am new here. My name is Jessica and I've been on Atkins since January. I have lost about 20 pounds. I have been stalled for the past 2.5 months and am thinking about switching to PP. I have done some research and found that the amount of protein for me should be 95 grams per day (I am 5'5" and 180 pounds). I would like to lose 20 pounds. I am getting married in October and would love to be down this weight. I currently also work out 5 days a week (taebo and elliptical and weights) but my fiance thinks I need to take a little break since I have been so frustrated with the lack of loss (and I am not losing inches either).

I am a little confused about fat. How many grams of fat should I be eating? It says to stick to 20-40 grams of carbs a day but since I'm coming off atkins is it better to try to stick to around the 20 to avoid gaining? I plan on going tonight to get the book (I do not have it now) but I"m just so interested in this I was hoping somebody can give me a few pointers or some success they have had or at least the best way to get started. I am worried about gaining since I am coming off of atkins. 95 grams of protein seems hard; any tips to get it all in (right now I'm eating about 60).

Typical Day
Breakfast - 2 eggs, coffee, splenda
Lunch - low carb deep dish pizza (at least this week)
Dinner - either steak or chicken or fish with some veggies
I do have some wine at night but always count it in my total carbs for the day.
I drink 64 oz of water a day as well.

Thanks so much!
Jessica:nod:

[Mitra]

Welcome, Jessica.

PP doesn't specify a particular fat quantity and usually it's not something you need to worry about, but if you're eating a lot of your food in the form of cheese and sausages, and not losing weight, then it might be something you need to look at - or if you're eating a lot of nuts or heavy cream.

For the carbs, as long as you spread the extra between your meals and snacks, it shouldn't be a problem, especially if you add them mainly as non-starchy veggies. The 40g (or 45 in PPLP) is a maximum, so there's no problem eating less than that on some days if you want to, but the higher number just allows you more variety.

Wine can slow things down for some people, even counting the carbs - but I had a glass with my dinner all through my weight loss time, so it isn't always a problem, especially if you keep to a smallish glass.

[maxlharris]

As a side note, there is no requirement in Atkins to stay at 20g of carbs beyond 14 days. There is no requirement to move beyond while losing weight, but 20 is a start up number, not an ongoing phenomena.

Once you move into the second phase of Atkins, and experiment with your carb count for loss and your trigger foods, it winds up not being that much different than PP. The devil is in the details (requirements on salad greens there, requirements on protein here, for example).

[JFourth]

Yes I have been trying to move through the phases of atkins as well I have just been stuck for over 2 months. No weight loss and no inches lost. So I am looking to shake things up a bit hoping it will get me moving again.

How about counting calories???

[maxlharris]

Hrm. What are calories like now?

Calorie counting: Sometimes useful, sometimes counter productive.

Are you logging your meals? You might find something you are doing that's a bit fuzzy. Frequently, the very activity of monitoring can improve results. Funny.

As to menu: two eggs is 14g of protein. If your requirement is 96g, you should be getting something like 32g for breakfast. I would suggest adding another egg (brings you to 21g,) and then maybe some cottage cheese, like 1/4-1/2 cup. That will round you out nicely.

How to add protein: Eat bigger steaks or more chicken. Add more meat to whatever a Low Carb Deep Dish Pizza is (I think I know, but there are probably a lot of ways to fill it). Which brings me to a comment on that...

LC Deep Dish Pizza is like a pizza casserole with a cheese crust (if I remember my LC food hacks correctly). As I understand these things, tomatoes are on the carbier side of vegetables, and pureed into a sauce, more so. I dunno if you are buying commercial sauce or what, but it's entirely possible that this is blowing your carbs. It's also entirely possible that you may be eyeballing a serving, and counting it for less than it is. I suggest a lot of caution with multiserving homemade foods, because they can creep in terms of carbs. And calories. And, while you may be able to maintain on a low carb diet with 5000 kcals a day, it is very difficult to lose on a really large amount of calories, regardless of how low you take your carbs. There are probably some folks on here who will disagree with that statement. They are on my ignore list (yes, I use it, and I have a tool that enhances it to where they completely disappear, which makes it both better and much more relaxing), and they are pretty much wrong about this. I'm not saying that you will gain on 20g of carbs and 5K of cals, but I am saying you will not lose like that.

As to whether it's time to watch calories, we need a baseline for what you're doing now to say if that's a good idea. The nutrition in the LC Pizza thing figures prominently in whether it's a good idea or not.

[JFourth]

WOw that is great information! Ok I log my food; I use myfooddiary.com and track my calories/carbs/fat/protein there. I am usually around 1800-2000 a day (180 lb). the deep dish pizza has about 7 grams of carbs per serving (2 cups shredded italian cheese, 6 eggs, 8 oz cream cheese, yellow peppers, black olives, ground beef, onion) and I use red hot sauce on it.
I think I will start eating 3 eggs for breakfast but doesn't cottege cheese have too many carbs in it? I should be getting the full fat kind right? I figured to add carbs to each meal but still try to stay around 20 a day. I think that maybe (hopefully) even the upping of protein (right now I get about 50-60 a day) will help me. I ahve heard that too much protein causes a gain and that concerns me. I am going out tonight when I get out of work to get the book and I am excited!

[Mitra]

There would probably be too many carbs in cottage cheese for you to get your whole protein requirement that way, but combined with the eggs it shouldn't be a problem. And yes, use the full fat kind if you can find it.

The deep dish pizza might be a bit heavy on the calories - using cheese and cream cheese as the main sources of protein. One of the problems that catches a lot of people is that as you lose weight, you can't eat the same amount of food (calories) and still lose weight. You don't have to do low calorie starvation, but you do need to eat less than you're using, otherwise your body will just happily burn the fat you're eating and have no need to use any of the stored fat you want to get rid of. Maybe a smaller portion of the pizza with some meat would be better - or meat/fish with salad. The pizza is probably OK to have sometimes, but might be a problem if you're eating it every day.

Protein Power isn't a high protein plan - it's adequate protein. It should give you enough protein to meet the building and repair needs of your body, with a little extra to allow for the fact that at low carb levels some of the protein needs to be converted to glucose to meet the needs of those few body processes that can only use glucose as fuel.

Which book are you getting?

[JFourth]

I am getting the protein power lifeplan. they actually didn't have it where I went so I ordered it on amazon; should get it in about a week. I am planning on trying this tomorrow. At around 32 grams of protein per meal. How does this look??

Breakfast: 3 eggs over easy, 15 oz coffee, 1 tsp splenda, 2 oz tuna, 1 tbsp mayo
protein 31.4, fat 31.5, carbs 5 calories 445

Lunch: low carb pizza (I have one piece left and don't want to waste it!), 1 tbsp franks red hot, 2 oz tuna, 1 tbsp mayo
protein 32.4, carbs 8.2, fat 36.6, calories 489

Dinner: Do not know yet!!!

How does that sound so far? I am also taking the rest of the week off from the gym; I have been working out A LOT lately and my fiance just really thinks I need to give my body a few days off so I plan on starting back up on Monday (M-F I will do a taebo dvd as well as 15 - 20 minutes on the elliptical).

What about "bulking up"? I'm a little nervous that I will bulk. I do cardio and weights/resistance through taebo amped and bootcamp. I am eating more protein than I used to and I just want to make sure I don't get bulky but rather lose fat and get lean. Is there a good way to do that??
I am a little nervous about starting this diet on a friday but I figured since I've been low carb for a while now really it's just the counting protein that I've never done before. I really hope this helps me break out of my stall. I have just been so bummed out lately because I just do not know what I am doing wrong! Thanks! You all have been very nice in assisting me and I can't wait to hear more from you!!

Jessica

[maxlharris]

Regarding Cottage cheese:
Protein Power: 7-10g net carbs per meal, reach a certain protein requirement.
Cottage Cheese
Per 100g (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/11/2):
Calories: 98
Protein: 11.1g
Carbs: 3.4g
To get to 7g of net carbs, you can have roughly 206g, or a tad under 1 cup of large curd. This gives you 22.9 grams of protein.
To get to 10g of net carbs, you can have 294g (10.4 ounces) which will yield you 32.6g of protein.

If your per meal protein requirement is less than 33, I would say you can safely have the whole thing from whole milk cottage cheese, large or small curd.

No, really. You can. I do from time to time.
Alternatively, rock two eggs (14 g of protein, plus 2 g of carbs in my count), 3 1 oz strips of bacon (9g of protein) and 1/2 cup of cottage cheese, small curd (12.5g protein, 4g of net carb) for a grand total of 35.5g of protein, against 6g of carbs, leaving you room for some berries in your cottage cheese.

[maxlharris]

What about "bulking up"? I'm a little nervous that I will bulk. I do cardio and weights/resistance through taebo amped and bootcamp. I am eating more protein than I used to and I just want to make sure I don't get bulky but rather lose fat and get lean. Is there a good way to do that??
I am a little nervous about starting this diet on a friday but I figured since I've been low carb for a while now really it's just the counting protein that I've never done before. I really hope this helps me break out of my stall. I have just been so bummed out lately because I just do not know what I am doing wrong! Thanks! You all have been very nice in assisting me and I can't wait to hear more from you!!
Jessica
You are a woman. Unless you are very hormonally messed up, you are not producing nor ingesting enough testosterone to get "bulked" up.
Left weights. Switch your elliptical sessions to intervals. Do tae-bo or cardio or whatever keeps you going to the gym. Switch it up from time to time to keep it fresh. Unless you start producing a lot of T, or start taking anabolic steroids, you are not going to get bulked.

I was watching Ruby the other day, and she fired her trainer (who never did anything but work with her whining, complaining, no-compliance ass), because she was afraid she was going to get bulky. I wanted to go to her blog and write something nasty. I find her struggle to be compelling, but find the misinformation spread on the show (and her general ignorence of why she's doing what she's doing, or how it works) to be somewhere between depressing and infuriating. Her getting bulky was one of the more absurd things I'd ever heard. I mean, this is a woman who couldn't fit behind the wheel of a car for most of a decade and she's worried about getting bulky with muscle? Never mind that she doesn't produce enough T to build large, pumped muscles. Her doctor never said anything to quell her fear, neither did either of her trainers, and the "guru" from New York did nothing but feed her fear.

<rant off>

[isisrose]

Max, you are so funny. I love your posts!

[Mitra]

There are a few women who build large muscles, but it's pretty uncommon (most women who want to build big muscles need to use chemical/hormonal assistance). If it hasn't happened with your training so far, eating more protein isn't likely to make it happen. What happens to me when I do resistance training is that my muscles get stronger, and a little more defined, but they don't get noticeably bigger.

[amdawson]

yeah, you won't bulk up, don't worry. you just won't.

your fiancee will appreciate a well-toned wife, however.

[JFourth]

Interesting about the cottege cheese! I've stayed away from it but I think I will have it now! I'm about to run by another store to see if they have the book; I really don't want to wait until Amazon. I figure with it being Friday this weekend is perfect to read it! I kind of half-a**ed on Atkins. I think it was because they shunned the coffee and alcohol and well I work full time and am planning a wedding so I LOVE my coffee in the morning and also I an 27 (almost) and I enjoy a glass of wine, beer or martini. SO I just felt like I kept messing up. I am a little worried with it being Friday and all but I am starting my day off right (no workout though; not until Monday) with 3 eggs in butter (I used to use the PAM spray but I think I will try a tab of butter to cook them in and see what that does) and 2 oz tuna with 1 tbsp mayo and of course my coffee. 15 oz, a packet of benefiber and tsp of splenda! Yum!!! Any other good breakfast/lunch/dinner ideas? I want to make this work b/c I have to this time! This diet just looks so much more real to me. Like I can live how I want to live just still watch my carbs (and I think that was another problem; I was eating all my carbs at nigth and having practically none during the day) so maybe splitting them up will help also!

[JFourth]

One more thing.....why potassium? I take fiber every day (in my coffee) but why potassium and what is a good source of it? what kind of multi vitamin. Most multi vitamin's make me sick. I have tried all those one a days and they are too harsh on my stomach and I literally throw them up. Tried it with food, milk, morning, afternoon, evening, etc.....

And putting in all my food for the day puts me at 120 grams of protein! I have never had that much in a day!! haha! Is that too much? PP says 93 grams

[Frank Hagan]

Potassium: in PP, Drs. Eades mention that as you go to a low carb diet, the body starts releasing all the water it has been holding on to, so you will see an increase in urination. One of the side benefits is that often people with high blood pressure see it drop. You also see some "water weight loss", which people usually mean to be temporary loss ... but with a low carb lifestyle, it never comes back because you don't store the excess water.

A bad thing about the increased urination is that it will also flush potassium out, so some people need potassium supplements while they are on the 30 ECC per day portion of the plan (at least at first). An alternative to taking 90mg of potassium in supplements is to use one of the salt substitutes such as No Salt, Morton's Salt Substitute, etc. (look on the label ... they use potassium chloride, which will increase your potassium levels).

One of the common symptoms of low potassium level is leg cramping. Cramping can also be due to low magnesium levels, and Drs Eades recommend magnesium supplements with some caveats (I've forgotten the condition, but there are health issues that cause dangerous levels of magnesium to build up, and if you are in that category you don't want to supplement).

[JFourth]

Great info thanks! I bought the book yesterday and I'm reading it right now. read about 70 pages and it's very in depth but I like how they speak throughout the book. It's not just a diet book it's a life book (I got PPLP). I was at over 130 grams of fat yesterday though! ahhhhh. :) Anyway I'm just reading now. Been staying on track this weekend. I really like the way this diet is because I can have my martini and my coffee and don't feel like I am cheating all the time. I am getting back to working out on Monday; taebo 5 days a week and also 20 minutes on the elliptical. hopefully it will all fall into place for me!!! I am sticking to eggs and bacon for breakfast and tuna or chicken salad for lunch and of course more protein for dinner. Lots of good stuff! Yesterday I was at 27 grams carbs.

[Spruce Goose]

As others have said... don't worry about the fat as long as the carbs are in check (and make sure you hit those protein numbers!). It may come down to calories at some point and fat is a good place to drop them but it may not be a concern for a while.

I've lost 70 lbs so far (over the last 2+ years) and I've finally got my weight dropping again. Recently I've had days where fat was 145, 138, and 109.

[JFourth]

As others have said... don't worry about the fat as long as the carbs are in check (and make sure you hit those protein numbers!). It may come down to calories at some point and fat is a good place to drop them but it may not be a concern for a while.

I've lost 70 lbs so far (over the last 2+ years) and I've finally got my weight dropping again. Recently I've had days where fat was 145, 138, and 109.

Yeah I am worried about the calories/fat. I know people say it might not be a problem but I don't have that much to lose....about 20 pounds so I think I should be watching it a little. Tomorrow for example I am at 2000 calories, 112 grams fat 120 grams protein and 25 grams carbs. it's just the calories and fat I am worried about. I was thinking about getting rid of the butter I cook my eggs in and using spray butter instead (PAM) that will knock like 100 calories and 11 grams fat there!

3 eggs, 4 pieces bacon for bfast
greek salad (no beets) with chicken breast and olive oil and vin dressing
7 oz grilled sirloin and broc for dinner.

[Frank Hagan]

Yeah I am worried about the calories/fat. I know people say it might not be a problem but I don't have that much to lose....about 20 pounds so I think I should be watching it a little. Tomorrow for example I am at 2000 calories, 112 grams fat 120 grams protein and 25 grams carbs. it's just the calories and fat I am worried about. I was thinking about getting rid of the butter I cook my eggs in and using spray butter instead (PAM) that will knock like 100 calories and 11 grams fat there!

3 eggs, 4 pieces bacon for bfast
greek salad (no beets) with chicken breast and olive oil and vin dressing
7 oz grilled sirloin and broc for dinner.

Total calories count, but not fat per se. Fat is easiest to reduce to reduce calories (after reducing carbs, of course). But the common wisdom that all fat is bad is simply wrong, according the PP philosophy. You need some of it.

Still, to lose weight you may need to reduce calories without your body going into "starvation mode" and resisting weight loss. If you use alternative fats, just make sure they are not made from hydrogenated vegetable oil. Its the "bad" kind of fat. You can get canola oil spray, and its healthier than corn oil or other hydrogenated oils. Or reduce the amount of butter while using a non-stick pan. Or switch to "Egg Beaters" or other egg substitutes for the same amount of protein with less calories.

The other thing to consider is if your goal is realistic. There are a lot of people starving themselves for an unrealistic goal, probably shortening their lives. They will make pretty corpses, but there will be a lot of "fat" people attending their funerals. (See Dr. Briffa's blog (http://www.drbriffa.com/blog/2009/07/10/more-evidence-that-the-overweight-are-at-the-lowest-risk-of-death/) about a recent study showing that people with an obese BMI live as long as "healthy" BMI, and people who are in-between, "overweight", actually live 17% longer.)

(Our view of what is a "healthy weight" has changed over the years; Google Marilyn Monroe's 1954 Playboy pics for an eye-opening example, or see my blog post (http://www.lowcarbage.com/?p=89) about it where I have a family-friendly cropped picture. That "tummy fat" is normal and healthy, but she'd never make into Playboy today).

[amdawson]

Yeah I am worried about the calories/fat. I know people say it might not be a problem but I don't have that much to lose....about 20 pounds so I think I should be watching it a little. Tomorrow for example I am at 2000 calories, 112 grams fat 120 grams protein and 25 grams carbs. it's just the calories and fat I am worried about. I was thinking about getting rid of the butter I cook my eggs in and using spray butter instead (PAM) that will knock like 100 calories and 11 grams fat there!

Try not to worry about the fat yet. The easiest way to derail yourself on PP is to eat too little. Your weight will get stuck as your body tries to hold on to the precious little energy you give it, and you will be miserable if you are hungry all the time.

Give yourself several weeks of getting all the protein you need and enough fat to satisfy your hunger. Your appetite will adjust, and then if you aren't losing weight, you can adjust the calories later.