What's it take to maintain for the long term?

[amdawson]

The more I read this forum, the more I see loads of people saying things like:

"Hi! I did protein power back in 19xx and lost xx pounds. Then I went off the plan and was really bad and now I'm xx pounds above where I started in 19xx."

I'm approaching my 1-year anniv. with PP and I'm still in the intervention phase for another 15-20 pounds. I don't want to be one of the guys like the ones above who gain back all the weight they lost on PP and have to start all over again.

So my question is this: Is PP an honest-to-goodness viable way to maintain for the long term? I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to maintenance, when I can enjoy going out for a drink with my friends again, and those other few little indulgences I would enjoy here and there. The Drs. Eades say one can maybe even go up to 120 ECC per day in maintenance, and so far, I don't see how my body would ever tolerate anything above 30-40 and not gain weight. But I don't know if 30-40 is really going to be practical in the long run, just because I do get tired of tracking down restaurant menus in advance of every outing, bringing my own snacks to social eating events to avoid the carbs, and even avoiding going out with friends so that I'm not tempted to drink a beer or three. In other words, I'm hoping to be able to loosen up eventually, without gaining a ton of weight back.

It seems like the long-term maintainers on this board are a lot harder to find than the yo-yoers, and and it's got me a little worried. Although, perhaps for now I should just worry about getting to the maintenance point in the first place :)

Can anyone share their thoughts about having success maintaining in the long run?

[mcsblues]

I think everyone who reads the bit in (I think) PP that says some people can maintain on (again from memory) up to 20% more carb grams than their minimum protein requirement(?) ... thinks, that is going to be me!! Truth is it is pretty unlikely. Most long term maintainers don't go much above 40 - 50 cg - at least not regularly, and there are some like me that have to keep at least some regard to calories as well.

So, IMHO, don't start thinking that you will "loosen up" a great deal, if at all, when you get to maintenance. What you can be assured of though is that this is a very much an "honest to goodness" way of long term maintenance (for many the only reasonable way of achieving that) - but more importantly, it is the very best thing to do for your health - and of course great health is much more important that a few pounds here and there.

My advice would be to work on the attitude that focusses on what you are missing out on, and how hard this is - and concentrate more on all the great things you can eat (that most people think they can't!) and how comparatively easy it is. Reminds me of the obvious answer to those that say life is hard ... oh yes, compared to what?:p I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, if there isn't something low carb on the menu (and lets face it how many places really don't?) - be assertive and ask for what you want. If you go out for a drink with friends - drink something low carb (there are a lot of choices) If you are going to some social thing with likely poor choices, eat first ..., or if you do have the occasional high carb meal (as the Eades do) make it up with very low carb for the rest of the day, or perhaps IF for a few days ... there are always alternatives, and the longer you do this the easier it gets ...

... after all, this is hard ... compared to what? ;)

[Karole]

Hi, I'm afraid I am one who lost then went back to my old habits then came back and lost it all again an am now in maintenance.

This time around I am influenced more by health issues than keeping the weight at a certain level. The first time after I lost we went on a week long cruise and I didn't get right back to this board after I got home. That was my biggest mistake. This place keeps me focused and I need the accountability. Just can't do it on my own.

I can't go above 40 or 50 carbs even now but I'm sure there are other folks out there that can. It may be something to do with my age (I'm 68) and I was just very pleased to be able to lose the weight in the first place at my age. Anyway, my bp is better and I've ditched 2 bp meds that I was taking plus my last lipid panel was the best it had been in over 20 years. I'm staying right here !!:):)

[Mitra]

I don't know that I have any magic answers as to how it's done, but I have maintained my weight loss for something like six years now. I have actually been having one of my periodic rounds of record keeping recently, so I know that what I've eaten over the last month is an average of around 80g carb per day (mostly ranging between 60 and 100). That is a bit higher than my protein requirement, and as Malcolm says, that doesn't work for everybody.

If I raise my carbs too much I start to get fluid retention - an indentation at the top of my socks is my early warning sign. The other thing I have to watch is that as I add extra carbs, I generally add them with fat (who wants to eat bread without butter, fruit without cream ...) so the calories pile up fast.

It doesn't happen without a bit of effort, and I certainly can't just eat willy nilly and maintain, but I'm finally starting to feel confident that maybe I can do it :).

[amdawson]

Yeah, I guess it's going to be easier to maintain on this than on the mainstream starvation/binge/purge low-cal-low-fat diets.

and i do feel like this is the best thing to do for my health, especially if over the long term, i can continue to replace processed foods with real foods. good point on the alternatives such as VLC or IF.

I guess I'm just hoping to enjoy pizza and beer with my friends, ice cream with my fiance, and the occasional mocha fatte from sbux sometime again.

it's funny that even though we know the consequences of these choices, and in my case, even though i can see the havoc that bad nutrition has wreaked in my family, we are still drawn to the addictive carby foods that got us in trouble in the first place.

I guess 300 ECC/day and good health just don't mix, especially for people with some insulin resistance.

Do any of you maintainers find overall that some regular exercise allows you to indulge in a honeypot without too much consequence?

[maxlharris]

First:
IF you go to ANY diet forum, you will find a large number of people who "did Diet X back in 19xx and lost xx pounds. Then I went off the plan and was really bad and now I'm xx pounds above where I started in 19xx." I suppose that you won't find that on the group of people who are maintaining 30lb losses for more than 1 year. Why can't I remember the name of that. I hooked Amy up with them. So, this is not a problem specific to ketogenic diets.

Second, the short answer is vigilance. The folks who maintained long term in the study group I used to talk about shared some specific habits that might provide some insight.
A majority of them ate breakfast every day in maintenance.
A majority of them weighed every day.
A few other shared things that were kind of artifacts of the study design, but that point to this central fact...
The thing that it takes, to maintain a significant weight loss for over a year is a continuation of the practices that produced that weight loss.

Grim? Perhaps.
But then again, bacon, hot wings, and brie are on this life plan in essentially unlimited quantities, so maybe it's not so grim afterall.

[Karole]

But then again, bacon, hot wings, and brie are on this life plan in essentially unlimited quantities, so maybe it's not so grim afterall.


Amen, Max Amen !! We do have sooo many great tasting foods that we can enjoy. We just have to let go of those things we once thought impossible to give up. One thing I no longer have a taste for that I used to eat daily (sometimes twice daily) is ice cream. I once loved the stuff so much and now it makes me almost wrinkle my nose to think about. I don't know why that has come about, but I am so glad it did.

I have also noticed that things I once absolutely loved like beans and corn bread or a certain muffin they serve at the trail ride I go to -well now if I try a bite of those foods they just don't live up to my expectations at all. They aren't as good as I thought I remembered them to be. I'm awfully glad of that too. At least we can change our food choices and not suffer forever.

[mcsblues]

I guess I'm just hoping to enjoy pizza and beer with my friends, ice cream with my fiance, and the occasional mocha fatte from sbux sometime again.
You can. Eat your favourite pizza topping with a salad. There are heaps of low carb beers these days, or try a glass of wine ... or spirits ... You can easily make low carb ice cream - but I'm sure there are plenty of other things you do and will enjoy sharing with your fiancé - focus on those. Starbucks? Ergh!:confused: - sorry, but take the time to discover real coffee - trust me you will never look back!!


it's funny that even though we know the consequences of these choices, and in my case, even though i can see the havoc that bad nutrition has wreaked in my family, we are still drawn to the addictive carby foods that got us in trouble in the first place.

I think you need to look at the behavioural side - more than supposed carb addiction - eg going out with friends = must eat beer and pizza, favourite thing to do with fiancé = share ice cream or maybe watch a movie = must have popcorn - these are all habitual behaviours that can easily broken once seen for what they are.

Do any of you maintainers find overall that some regular exercise allows you to indulge in a honeypot without too much consequence?


No, and stop thinking of honeypots! There are plenty of rewards and treats within a low carb lifestyle - so why dream about doing something else?

[mcsblues]

But then again, bacon, hot wings, and brie are on this life plan in essentially unlimited quantities, so maybe it's not so grim afterall.

I wish. There are plenty of 'us' who have found this just isn't true - so "unlimited" is just not part of my maintenance vocabulary.

The breakfast thing is also not on my list, and again there are a lot of maintainers who use IF if not as a constant part of this WOL, then as a tool to get back on track after a planned or not so planned diversion. As long as it doesn't trigger over compensation later, skipping meals when you don't feel like eating is a useful and common sense strategy.

[Sharvo]

Hi,
I got the "F", but what's the "I" in IF? Intermitent?

Sharvo

[mcsblues]

Hi,
I got the "F", but what's the "I" in IF? Intermitent?
Yes. If you are interested, Mike started a fire storm about IF a while back ;)

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/fast-way-to-better-health/

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/protein-power-verses-intermittent-fasting/

[Mitra]

I found that IF tried at home was a disaster for me, but it did make me realise that missing a meal wasn't the end of the world. I now find it useful when I'm staying with my parents and have eaten out a few days in a row - I can skip the meals in between.

Like Malcolm, "unlimited" doesn't work for me either. My first maintenance lesson was that double cream is not a "free" food, just because it's low carb :(. 2,500 kcals per day doesn't work when you're 5' 2" :o. Even if they're LC kcals.

[Benay]

amdawson, there is no reason why you cannot enjoy an occasioal beer and pizza with friends or an ice cream with your fiance. But "occasional" does not mean weekly. Those of us who had achieved our weight loss goal and "loosened up" with the carbs did one (or both) of two things: we did it every week and we did not compensate by cutting carbs and calories for three days post carb binge.

Sure -- enjoy a night out BUT follow it with three days of strict low carb/'low calorie observance to compensate for the trauma your body experienced. Low carb meaning avoid carbs like the plague and take them as far below 20 ECC/day as you can. And low calorie means high protein, low fat, low carb. Choose the lower fat proteins for the next 3 days.

This kind of compensation regime is not worth it for me to do very often so I "splurge" very very rarely now. And I am a maintainer since 2007.