starting PP, how to count carbs.

[andy]

I'll be starting phase 1 of the protein power lifestyle, which as you know requires no more than 30 grams of carbs a day and no more than 10 per meal. But the question I'm asking myself is do I count the carbs found in some meats, fish and poultry. For example, when I looked at the protein content of some lean cold cut meat like ham I notice that there was several grams of carbs included in the list of ingredients. Do I include those carbs?

[Karole]

I count every carb in every food ....my theory is a carb is a carb is a carb--no matter what the source.

Also, beware of foods that are so small in serving size as to state a zero carb content on the label whereas if you eat an actual serve of the stuff it does indeed have carbs.

Another carb item that labels as zero is tea. If you drink a lot of it (or coffee) it can add up during the day. I use www.fitday.com (http://www.fitday.com) to keep track of all that stuff in the actual amounts I consume.

Hope this helps you out. I know you only asked about the carbs in meats, but there are other hidden things out there and I thought you would like to know.

[gitfiddle]

For example, when I looked at the protein content of some lean cold cut meat like ham I notice that there was several grams of carbs included in the list of ingredients.
Andy, cured meat (like ham) is often cured with sugar of some kind. That might be the source of the carbs.

Yes, every carb counts. :)

[maxlharris]

To count crabs:
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/finfish-and-shellfish-products/4159/2

To count carbs:
Count everything. The carb in an egg is maybe negligible, but if you are starting, count the carbs in your lunch meat (it's probably sugar, or some sugar analog like HFCS or Honey), in your cheeses, and in everything else.

You can subtract fiber from carbs (assuming you are in the US, and not the EU, where it's already been done).

[Frank Hagan]

To count crabs, count the number of claws and divide by two (sorry, couldn't resist).

You do have to count every carb, and one mistake I made in the very beginning was thinking I could have 30 carbs at one meal and none during the rest of the day. You really want to spread them out equally, 10 with each meal. Or less with each meal if you are eating something with carbs for a snack (like almonds, walnuts, etc.)

I think the idea is that carbs increase blood sugar rapidly and stimulate insulin release, you want to train your body to deal with a little bit throughout the day rather than slamming it with a ton all at once.

PP and PPLP has a chart of foods and the net carbs they have, called the "ECC" charts ("effective carb count" I think). When looking at labels, you can deduct the "fiber" grams listed below carbs. That's how you get to net carbs. The ECC charts have done that calculation for dozens of foods.

[andy]

Thank you all for your answers and I'll be checking the links in your posts. As expected your answers confirmed what I thought, which will make it a little more challenging.

This brings me to my follow up questions; do all protein sources have carbs? For example does corn/grain feed beef have carbs? (I will be switching to grass feed beef, does that contain carbs) Do eggs, fish ect...have carbs? Does the cooking method (adding butter or whatever) add carbs to whatever you're cooking? If so where can I find the ECC for any protein source? Is there a book or web site which will give the protein/carb/fibre/calories count for each ounce of meat, fish or poultry? That would make it so much easier.

I know many questions from a beginner. In my past life I would eat whatever I like and never gave it a second thought, so please excuse my ignorance.

PS. Sorry for the crabs slip in the title lol.

[Gaelen]

Andy, I took care of the 'crabs.'
I count them one at a time, preferably with lemon and butter. ;)

[gitfiddle]

If so where can I find the ECC for any protein source? Is there a book or web site which will give the protein/carb/fibre/calories count for each ounce of meat, fish or poultry? That would make it so much easier.
Andy, here is a carb-counter (http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/carbcounter.shtml)to try. My favorite one seems to have disappeared, but you can google and get lots of choices.

Have you read any of the Protein Power books yet? There's good advice and explanation to be had.

[andy]

Thank you both for your feedback. I do appreciate you taking care of the crabs for me and the web site does seem to have the info I'm looking for.

I did read the Protein Power book, which is where I will be starting my new and healthy life style.

Be well.

[Frank Hagan]

I didn't find the charts for meals that easy to read in Protein Power, but if you look at them, you'll see that Drs Eades list several foods that are good protein sources.

Eggs, meat, fish, etc. usually don't have any carbs to speak of, but sometimes manufactured food does ... for instance, beef jerky can have carbs depending on the flavoring they use. So for packaged foods you have to look at the label. One brand of bologna might have fillers and carbs while others don't.

I usually have eggs and bacon for breakfast, 5 or 6 ounces of meat for lunch, and then a dinner that has meat and some kind of dark green veggie. I figured out that any veggie that grows above ground or is dark green is probably OK.

Nuts are my snack food now, but they do have some carbs. A 1 ounce serving of almonds has about 6 grams of carbs, and about 2 of fiber, so its a net of 4 grams. Walnuts are a bit lower. If you like pumpkin seeds, they are very low carb. But some of the smoke-flavored nuts might be more, so you have to check the package on them.

[Gaelen]

eggs have 1 gram of carbohydrate per 6-7gms of protein
shellfish (crabs included ;) ) also has measurable carbohydrate levels at about the same ratio as eggs...so if you can really chow down on things like oysters, clams, crustaceans du jour, you *can* get 30g carbs from the shellfish in a single sitting.

I've been known to really *do* a good clambake, so don't underestimate shellfish as a carb source if you're counting strictly.

[amdawson]

you know, it also depends on your personality. allow me to chime in with my two cents' worth.

if i went so far as to count every tenth of a gram of carbohydrate in every food, i'd go absolutely nutso crazy. so really, i just try to count what's on the package minus the fiber, and make my best effort to stay under 10g ECC each meal.

Also, if the foods I'm eating are very low in carbs, such as natural meats, cheeses, eggs, etc. then I just estimate 1g per whatever portion I'm eating, unless it's a very large portion, then I might guess 2g. To me, it's really not worth trying to figure out if it's .5g or 1.5g. Your body is not going to draw a line in the sand at exactly 40.000g of carbs and refuse to improve your health if you exceed it.

And since I've been doing this for about a year now, I really don't count much at all anymore. I just choose 0-1g ECC foods for almost all my choices, and then I know I'm in the clear. If I get "stuck" on the scale, I might tighten up for a while and count a little harder for a couple weeks, but that really just serves to heighten my awareness of what I'm putting in my body.

Don't let me discourage you from counting if that's your style. But don't let counting the carbs to the fractional gram cause you to give up and fail altogether. If you are choosing meats, fats, and green veggies without added sugar, you'll most likely be fine.

Others may have a different view, but that's my experience and my recipe for success.

good luck!

[maxlharris]

For the most part, the muscle meats of land animals have minimal carb. They are ignorable.

Eggs generally have about 1g of carb per egg. I know a lot of people who do not count this gram. I do when I am counting.

As to AMDawson's claim that strict counting is the road to insanity, I beg to differ.
I use Fitday to count. When I am strict, I weigh things, so that my counts are accurate in fitday. But Fitday counts all the fractions, which means it is the insane one, and I just reap the benefit.

[andy]

Initially I found it somewhat hard to understand the protein chart in the Protein Power book. Then I realised, using the chart for the minimum protein required for my LBW, it would be is easy to combine different protein sources to assure I get the right amount of protein for each meal.

My main goal is to reduce my body fat from 25% to 15% all the while keeping, as close as possible, my present weight. I now weight 170 lbs., 42 lbs of fat and 128 lbs LBW. I’ve started to work out 4 times a week for about 45 minutes per workout. Therefore I am using the .7 grams per LBW, which will require a minimum of 87.5 grams of protein a day to maintain the 128 lbs of LBW. If I want to keep my weight at 170 but increase my LBW to 145 (15%) should I increase my protein intake right away or gradually?

I do appreciate all the feedback from this forum.

[Karole]

I count everything too--it's like shopping at Wal Mart (or elsewhere) -- I buy a little here and a little there and when I get to check out-- lo and behold it totals up a lot higher than I could ever have estimated.

I have heard a lot of people having problems with stalling and etc. and when they actually start checking they are underestimating what they are consuming each and every day.

One example for me was my coffee intake--I use a dab of half and half in it too, but not much. One day I drank more than usual and when I logged it to Fitday it was like 6 carbs for just the coffee. I never dreamed that almost my whole allowance for the meal was used up in my coffee. So if you do a lot of tea, coffee or other substance that you aren't counting-- well it's up to you,

[amdawson]

yeah, i don't mean to discourage or disparage counting. kudos to those who do. i just try to keep it more of a mental tally. i tried fitday a couple of times, and i hated trying to remember and record every little thing. add your coffee. add your cream. add your packet of stevia. add your bacon. is it cured or uncured? thin sliced or thick? hickory smoked or plain? center cut or regular? add your eggs. poached, fried, scrambled, boiled, or deviled? oh, i had a protein shake that i made...now i have to look up the protein powder, the cream or whatever, the fruit, anything else i add in there and tally it all up.

and that's just breakfast. as long as i can make PP work without doing that, then i can find lots of better things to do with my time.

but yes, when i stall etc., i definitely keep a lot closer eye on the exact counts, and it invariably helps me get going again. inevitably, there will be times when you have to do that. for me, however, i can have reasonable success without counting everything every single day.

just wanted to point out that the PP plan can be worked from a few different angles.

[amdawson]

BUT-

to support what the others said, if something that's supposed to happen on the plan isn't working, the answer nearly always boils down to counting...and counting accurately and sticking to the plan almost always works.

[Frank Hagan]

One example for me was my coffee intake--I use a dab of half and half in it too, but not much. One day I drank more than usual and when I logged it to Fitday it was like 6 carbs for just the coffee. I never dreamed that almost my whole allowance for the meal was used up in my coffee. So if you do a lot of tea, coffee or other substance that you aren't counting-- well it's up to you,

Every chart I've seen shows a cup of black coffee with zero carbs. Is there a fraction of a carb in there I'm not aware of? I'll have to measure my mug, but I'm sure its more than 6 ounces. I was thinking coffee was "free"!

[maxlharris]

Coffee: Fractional carbs
Half and Half, Cream, Milk: More than fractional carbs.
Sweetener: Splenda, Truvia, etc: Fractional carbs. Sugar, Honey, etc: Out. Pure sucralose: Too fractional to count.

[Karole]

I know what you mean, Amdawson--it can get tedious to count stuff up on fitday or other places but I'm lucky --I'm retired and have time for it. Not every one does or as you say , wants to do so.

Sigh, I never stop at just 6 oz. of coffee. Wish I could. But yes there is a bit of carbs in coffee and tea darn it.

Max, remember how flumoxed Missy was when she found out how many carbs she consumed each day with her supposedly carb free tea and splenda?? I think she really drank oodles of the stuff and it added up to a pretty good portion of her daily allowance.

[maxlharris]

Yeah. Exactly. Missy and the sweet tea.
When she cut the tea, I believe she dropped some weight fairly quickly (and then her family life erupted, and well... she's doing very well with what she's up to these days).