Newbie with a couple of questions (long)

[JKat]

Hello everyone

I really hope you can help me!!

My mom has pre-diabetes and has gained about 25pounds this past year. She has tried everything with no success. She is ready to give up. I came across this plan on the net and it really intrigued me. I bought the 30day plan and read it. (Mom is reading it now).

I have a couple questions.

1. She is afraid of fats. Is their a good rule of thumb about how much?? Could you eat too much??

2. Snacks...I afraid to have her eat nuts because they are so calorie dense and too easy to eat to many. What are some options??

3. If still hungry add more prot or fat??

4. Low carb bread...How many carbs??? How many calories??

My dad will start with her and I will begin soon. (I just had surgery and re-couping)

Any suggestion...advice...ect please I would appreciate it. I want to make sure we really understand it. She needs to succeed!!! Its so hard watching her try and fail.

As soon as could get to book store I will buy pplp.

Thank you for your time! Jodi

[Needlewoman]

Welcome from a relative newbie, from across the 'pond'. I can tell you that good fats are nothing to be afraid of, once you get out of the frame of mind that we have all been brainwashed into. Cheese is the one to watch though, as it is easy to eat quite a lot of, without realising how many calories there are in it - not that we count calories, but one cannot go wild :) The experts will be along later, and will no doubt guide you on what is available in US shops.

As far as carbs go, aim for about 10g per meal from whatever source, vegetables, dairy or bread like substance, with maybe 5g each from a couple of snacks, to a total between 30-40g per day. This goes for everyone.

Once you get a book you will learn how to calculate a minimum protein requirement by lean body weight. It is a minimum so if hungry eat more.

I have been eating this way since about the middle of August, didn't get my hands on a book until about 2 weeks ago, and have lost about 15-16lbs. I have not felt hungry, in fact I struggle to eat the minimum some days :confused: I have been eating piles of salad with full fat mayonnaise, and probably too much cheese, but I have lost weight every week except when I ate some bread.

Expect many visits to the bathroom at the beginning, as the body gives up water stored along with stored carbs :D:D (I'm only laughing because it was that problem that first drove me to post here)

[jilly27]

Ditto what Needlewoman said, right on the mark. I haven't read the "30 Day Plan" but have PP and PPLP so I'm not entirely sure how the Eades lay the program out in your book.

As she mentioned we don't really count calories as such but you can't go crazy on cheese and nuts or the calories will be too high.

Good fats are not only good for you but necessary for survival (ok I'm being a little dramatic but it is true ;)) I'm sure your book will list several good fats to eat. It's difficult to eat too much fat as it is self limiting to some extent because its so filling. Same goes for protein. So in answer to question 3, yes.

I tend to snack on things like proscuitto with a small piece of cheese rolled up together, hard boiled eggs, leftover meat I have kicking around etc. You can have some carbs with snacks, but keep it down to 5g ecc or so. (remember ecc is the total carbs - the fibre)

As for question 4, I think its really best to just not eat any type of bread, even low carb, but that can be very difficult for some people. There are some decent low carb breads out there, just check the nutrition labels carefully. There are also some really good recipes in the food section of this forum.

As Needlewoman mentioned there is often a lot of water released at the beginning so don't be alarmed, its normal. One issue with this however is needing to supplement with potassium and magnesium at the very least. Again I'm sure this is mentioned in 30Day, so be sure to look closely at that part.

Hope this little bit of info helps. :)

Jilly

I recommend you do get PPLP (and maybe even PP), there's so much info in them.

[JKat]

Thank you both for your quick responses. I just got back from the book store and bought the last copy of pplp. I will dig in today.

[Frank Hagan]

I haven't read the 30 Day Plan, but have read both Protein Power (PP) and Protein Power Life Plan (PPLP). I am also "pre-diabetic", diagnosed with metabolic syndrome because of obesity (especially around the belly), high triglycerides, low HDL cholesterol, a fasting blood sugar level over 100 and high blood pressure. I have a chart with my cholesterol tests at my blog, http://www.lowcarbage.com/?page_id=2.

Did you find out why the doctor thinks your mother is pre-diabetic? I suspect its the same symptoms I had (yeah, past tense).

I would recommend PPLP as a starting point if the 30 Day book doesn't have a chart to tell you how much protein to eat per day. That's really the starting point of the entire diet. You may find, like I did, that you have a hard time eating enough protein at certain meals.

Its a different kind of diet. You don't really count calories or fat grams. You do count carbs. For everyone, you limit carbs to around 30 - 40 per day, divided up between your meals and snacks. You also try to divide up your protein between the three meals. The doctors stongly advise eating breakfast, probably one of the hardest lessons for me to learn.

If high triglycerides were part of the problem, your mother can tell her doctor that she wants to try reducing carbohydrates to manage it. The same applies to blood sugar levels. Reducing refined carbs and sugar are generally accepted methods of dealing with both issues. The doctor may NOT be comfortable with "Atkins" or "Protein Power" ... mine isn't, but he likes the progress I have made.

If your mother has a recent blood test that has the reasons for her being pre-diabetic, have her focus on the diet to correct that. Get another blood test about three months after starting, and see if her blood levels have improved (I had remarkable improvement in triglycerides, from 344 to 106 just 6 weeks after starting PP). For me, it was liberating to have a diet focused on "health" rather than "weight". Not sure why, because excess weight is also a health issue, but maybe deep down I think wanting to be thin is just "vanity". Wanting to live longer and be healthier is not, and that may be the difference.

[Frank Hagan]

I just realized my long pontifical post didn't answer your questions!


1. She is afraid of fats. Is their a good rule of thumb about how much?? Could you eat too much??


You can eat too many fats, but you have to really work hard at it. Once you calculate your protein requirements, and look at the foods you have to eat, you will probably find you won't need to add any more fats to the diet. The problem is that we have slammed all the foods our great-great-grandparents ate as "fatty", but we're finding out there was a reason they were generally not diabetic and not obese. Eggs, bacon, beef, lamb, pork, roasted or raw nuts, etc. are all healthy foods. And they are very filling primarily because of the natural fat content. By contrast, our "low fat" foods reduce fat and usually add carbs, and what most of us find is that carbs increase our hunger even when we're full. That's because of the insulin response to blood sugar (blood sugar goes up, then blood sugar crashes, signaling us to eat again to raise it). If you calculate your protein requirements, eat enough protein dense foods like those our g-g-grandparents ate, you will be fine.



2. Snacks...I afraid to have her eat nuts because they are so calorie dense and too easy to eat to many. What are some options??


Its really a "mind shift" to think about, but don't worry about calories. If you focus on the minimum protein requirements (plus up to 50% more if necessary for hunger) and reducing carbs to 30 -40 per day, it won't matter how many calories a snack has. The problem with nuts is not the calories, but the carbs. Cashews are pretty high in carbs, as nuts go. But 1/4 cup (2 ounces) of almonds has 7 g carbs. Peanuts are about 8 grams of carbs for 1/4 cup. Walnuts and pecans are 3 grams per 1/4 cup.


3. If still hungry add more prot or fat??

4. Low carb bread...How many carbs??? How many calories??


If you are eating at least the minimum of protein, and reducing carbs to about 10 per meal, you won't get hungry. But if you do, add more protein to each meal. Then, if you're still hungry, add more fatty sources of protein.

Bread is the hardest thing. For me, the best option was to simply not eat it. Now, after a few months, I occasionally have a toasted slice of Julian Bakery's Smart Carb I bread (available at some Whole Foods Markets at just over $8 a loaf or on-line). It has 1 gram of carbs per slice. Most bread has too much to eat even a single slice. A slice of toasted french bread has about 15 grams of carbs. Over the limit. Oat Bran bread comes in at 9 grams, so if you don't have any other carbs with a meal, you could have a slice of toasted oat bran bread. Check the labels for the carbohydrate content in grams, and subtract the "Fiber" grams under it for the "effective carb count" or net grams of carbs in the food.

The main "mind shift" is that you are now concerned with getting enough protein and limiting carbs, not counting calories OR fat.

[Needlewoman]

Bread is the hardest thing. For me, the best option was to simply not eat it.
I think this is the easiest approach, and ties in with Jilly's post about preparing foods to make sure that there are things available to eat, otherwise the temptation will be to have a sandwich, or bread and butter or whatever because it is simple. If you are all going to low carb it will probably be best to simply not have it in the house. People seem to use lettuce leaves as 'carriers' for spreadable things in place of bread.

If you look in the kitchen section here, or on other low carb sites you can find various recipes for flax breads and muffins, which are low carb (but not eat all you want!), I don't know what they are like yet, but am going to try some recipes soon.

Jilly's post was appropriate for me too, because I haven't got organised enough yet. However we have just been away, 4 adults in a small car, so I had to run supplies down before we went, and be careful whilst away that we didn't waste food or have to bring much back.

[JKat]

Wow thank you both for taking the time to answer my questions.

My mom found out she was a pre-diabetic from an a1c blood level. It kept creaping upwards. She really had no other symtoms. In looking back she remembers not being able to maintain her weight and getting a roll or fat around her belly. If we did not have a great MD I think she would of never known. He is very pro-active and open low carb.

Again thank you for helping her. I have been on the phone all day with her to make sure she is ready. I will post some results in a week or so.

[Frank Hagan]

If the doc is open to low carb, that makes it much easier. My doc also stresses exercise for blood sugar levels, although my A1c has come down without increasing my activity level.

[maxlharris]

1. She is afraid of fats. Is their a good rule of thumb about how much?? Could you eat too much??

2. Snacks...I afraid to have her eat nuts because they are so calorie dense and too easy to eat to many. What are some options??

3. If still hungry add more prot or fat??

4. Low carb bread...How many carbs??? How many calories??
1- to control diabetes, no not too much fat. To lose weight, yes. Start out with unlimited fat. It will limit itself in time, due to satiating effects. A decent guideline might work like this: keep your protein at the level it's supposed to be, then not more than 1g of fat for each gram of protein.

2- Do not worry about calories until the program fails to produce the weight loss that you want. At that point, you can check your total calories and adjust down or up. The right nuts are a great snack on this program. Hard cheeses are also good. Last thought, I assume your mother is an adult.

3- It varies from person to person. Either will do for most. If diabetes is an issue, I'd go more fat.

4- Why waste time with LC bread? Much better things to spend carbs on.

[Needlewoman]

4- Why waste time with LC bread? Much better things to spend carbs on.
Don't know how to put this delicately, but I could do with the extra fibre from the flax seeds in the things that I am going to try. Since the third to a half bag of salad leaves that I get my carbs from at most meals is only about 2.5g of carb I think I can 'afford' some from a bread like substance. I also have the added incentive of getting my Type 1 son to eat lower carb foods.

[JKat]

Today is day one for my parents and I have my fingers crossed. It is so hard as a child to see her so upset. I thank you all for your quick thoughtful and honest responses. It seems bread is allowed but some do not think it should be eaten. She has decided to eat on low carb piece with breakfast and no other bread the rest of the day. I am going to have her journal so we know how and what she is eating. Their is great support here and I appreciate it.

[Needlewoman]

I wish them luck, but don't think they will need it, as this is not like 'going on a diet' as there is so much that can and indeed should be eaten, so they shouldn't experience hunger. One does have to accept that it has to be this way of eating for the rest of life, though, which may be another reason why some of us want just a few baked goods to make it seem like what we are used to.

I forgot to put in my first reply that within only a few days of changing to low carb eating I felt a lot better, more alert, somehow. Mind you that did get a little lost whilst I was scurrying to the bathroom so many times :eek:, but because I didn't have my book at the beginning I went cold turkey and cut out just about all carbs apart from salad leaves and the milk in my coffee and tea. I don't know if it would be easier with a book and an allowance of 30g carb or so. The bathroom issue does settle down, as Jilly promised me it would, to the extent that I have just been on 2 long car journeys (3-4 hours) and it was not me that wanted to stop first :)

[jilly27]

It seems bread is allowed but some do not think it should be eaten. She has decided to eat on low carb piece with breakfast and no other bread the rest of the day. I am going to have her journal so we know how and what she is eating. Their is great support here and I appreciate it.


Bread is allowed, some people just find it easier (less cravings) to cut it out altogether. The other factor with bread is some people have gluten sensitivity/allergies and don't even know it, so cutting it out can really help with digestive issues etc. You can get some decent low carb gluten free breads, perhaps try something like that.

Keeping a journal, in my opinion, is essential, especially in the beginning. Most of us are lousy at judging portion sizes :rolleyes: so measuring our food for awhile is a good way to get a feel for how much to eat. You can simply write everything down using a carb counter book or you can use an online program. I like 'Fitday' myself. You have to customize most of the foods they have in their database though as they don't subtract fibre from carbs, but once you have your foods entered its very simple to use and it breaks your foods down into calories, fat, carbs, protein and nutrients.

I mentioned potassium supplementation, be sure to read about that (PPLP pg 351-352). It is one that can interfere with some medications so you will know if its ok for your parents to go on immediately. Magnesium and calcium should be fine for anyone I think (although too much mag can cause more bathroom issues apparently). Again, check in PPLP for that info.

I hope it all goes well.

Jilly

[maxlharris]

Don't know how to put this delicately, but I could do with the extra fibre from the flax seeds in the things that I am going to try. Since the third to a half bag of salad leaves that I get my carbs from at most meals is only about 2.5g of carb I think I can 'afford' some from a bread like substance. I also have the added incentive of getting my Type 1 son to eat lower carb foods.

I have put a lot of thought into why LC bread is not a good idea for people.
You motivated me to a blog post.
http://wp.me/pEfPc-t

I may have led with the opportunity cost benefit, but really, it's more about other things, like sustainable behavior, GI Tract health, the general lack of utility of fiber, the increased cravings, and the unnoticed epidemic of gluten issues people have.

All that said, the LC bread may still work for you as a long term solution to sustained weight loss.

As to Son with Type 1... that's not really a horse of a different color. It's just a horse of a darker shade of the same color. And I'll let you decide whether a life with LC bread or a life without bread is a better option. I'm not involved and I don't want to be.