Thriving on a Vegan Diet?

[KenC]

I am on a paleolithic diet with a little neolithic (cheese) tossed in once in a while. My family is vegetarian and I was a vegetarian (vegan for 8 years) until a year before I was was diagnosed with colon cancer after having Crohn's disease for about 30 years. I think the high carb 'healthy' diet and then 'healthy' vegetarian diet (especially vegan) contributed or even possibly caused my Crohn's disease which in turn led to colon cancer.

Recently, I saw a talk given by the actress, Alicia Silverstone on the merits of a vegan diet. It did not appear to me that she was eating a low carb vegan diet, just the 'healthy' vegan diet that I used to have. The only step forward in her diet appears to be the absence of sugar and high fructose syrup and the emphasis on whole rather than refined grains. She claims to have lost weight, acne, blood shot eyes and fatigue. I am afraid when my family sees this, they will think the 'healthy' vegetarian and it's extreme, the vegan diet, is actually good. I wonder what Alicia's blood markers (ex. HDL, triglycerides) are and what will happen to her health over time. Alicia gives the same environmental, political and animal arguments for her diet that I followed for most of my adult life. Read, "The Vegetarian Myth" for a well researched alternate view on this from a former vegan.

It seems whenever a popular figure, such as an actor/actress follows a diet, people listen to them as if they were experts on the subject. How can Alicia report these health improvements unless her diet was even worse before?

Ken

[mcsblues]

Hey Ken, welcome to the forum :)

I think you can waste a lot of time following what other people say they do ... even if they really do have some expertise ... or claim they do. I think just about anyone who adopts a healthy low carb diet finds it easier to lose and maintain weight loss, gets more energy and better skin. As for bloodshot eyes ... in my (very limited you understand) experience ... that has very little to do with what I have been eating ... if you get my drift!:p

Look, there's no doubt that a good vegan diet could be better than the SAD (standard American diet) - but is it the best diet for health? There is no evidence of that (in fact the reverse is true when compared to a paleo/low carb diet that includes animal sourced fats and proteins). There is also no evidence that a vegan diet is one on which we evolved to thrive for the last couple of million years or so (a key plank in any paleo eater's rationale - and if you are talking of former vegetarians, the Beyondveg (http://www.beyondveg.com/) site is a rich source of information and research).

The political/environmental situation is much more complicated than some would have you believe. Yes there are undoubtedly ways that livestock is raised these days which is bad for the planet (not to mention the meat) - but it doesn't have to be that way. Sustainability and even carbon positive outcomes are possible when you choose grass fed sources ... and your vegan friends while lecturing you, probably wouldn't think twice about eating vegetation sourced from the other side of the world and grown with who knows what devastation to the wildlife and natural flora it displaces.

So go with what you feel is the best for you. You will struggle to convince anyone else to change their ways (its akin to asking a friend to abandon their religion) but if they see how much better you are doing ... well you never know ... the penny may drop!;)

[Gaelen]

Hi KenC, welcome in.
I agree with most of what Malcolm posted - people are always willing (and able) to find things that will back up their dietary preferences and choices. You can't change that. And you can't change them.

Alicia Silverstone is a celebrity, not a scientist. And if she chooses to be vegan, so be it.
There are vegan low carbers. It can be done...although IMO the diet is very limiting. It's even completely possible to low carb as an ovo-lacto vegetarian or pescatarian - improve lipid profiles, improve lean body mass, and just not eat meat from warm-blooded animals. I did that for about three of the eight years I've low-carbed, and it was my most successful weight loss and general health period.

Since I can no longer peaceably digest most uncooked vegetables, fruits with skins, nuts, seeds or soy (Stage IV rectal cancer, dx'd 2004 with a permanent ostomy) I've included much more meat in my diet during the last six years. I wasn't meatless by philosophy, but for economics - so it's not a mental leap for me to include meat when I can afford it. And physically, my body can only tolerate certain proteins - so I didn't have a lot of choices.

You have to make the food choices that are best and healthiest for you.
What your family chooses to believe is their own path.

[maxlharris]

Recently, I saw a talk given by the actress, Alicia Silverstone on the merits of a vegan diet.
...
It seems whenever a popular figure, such as an actor/actress follows a diet, people listen to them as if they were experts on the subject.

Is Alicia Silverstone still a popular figure?

[Frank Hagan]

Hey, for every Alycia Silverstone, I'll give you one Courtney Thorne Smith (http://www.thatsfit.com/2010/01/15/atkins-spokesperson-courtney-thorne-smith-dishes-on-diet/), an actress who is actually still acting.

[S Bear]

This is based entrely on my own observations, but it seems to me that when people are young it is often the case that their bodies deal better with carbs. I certainly had no problems on a hugely high-carb, vegetarian diet until I reached age 40...and then I started ballooning.

I'm a low-carb lacto-ovo vegetarian, and I find it quite easy. But low-carb vegan is an near-impossible challenge.

I'm sure Alicia's helath imporved when she went vegan. I'd also predict that in the future she might need to revise that decision as her insulin levels start to climb.

[outofthegray]

I tried a vegan diet several years ago because of exactly what Alicia Silverstone claimed. :o

I lasted 5 months, and in that time my eyes never stopped being a bit blood shot, I didn't notice a difference in my energy levels at all, and after eating all those fluffy beans, and fluffy potatoes with soy butter, and fluffy rice, I was the fluffiest I'd ever been.

I do empathize with the philosophy behind veganism as an ethical choice... to a point. For my health, though, it was not a beneficial WOE, and actually is more inconvenient that LC when it comes to meal planning.

[kylee40]

Nutritionists, physicians, and people everywhere recognize that plant products are good sources of protein, iron, calcium, and vitamin D, because they can be easily absorbed by the body and don't contain artery-clogging fat. The American Dietetic Association states, "Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence."

[Frank Hagan]

Nutritionists, physicians, and people everywhere recognize that plant products are good sources of protein, iron, calcium, and vitamin D, because they can be easily absorbed by the body and don't contain artery-clogging fat. The American Dietetic Association states, "Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence."

You can eat a vegan diet and stay low carb, and avoid the damaging effects of excessive carb intake, but the "low fat" idea is foreign to us here. There is no evidence in the latest studies that saturated fat has anything to do with clogging the arteries, heart disease, or gaining weight.

You can be a vegan if you desire to for moral or ethical reasons, and we'll respect that. But don't fool yourself into thinking it is a healthier way to live. You can manage it and be healthy with some work. But it is not a better way to eat generally, for most people.

[S Bear]

Let me start by noting that I've been a vegetarian (lacto-ovo type) for over 41 years. Even for a troll. you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Nutritionists, physicians, and people everywhere recognize that plant products are good sources of protein, iron, calcium, and vitamin D, because they can be easily absorbed by the body and don't contain artery-clogging fat.

1) Plants that are high in protein typically don't provide complete proteins. People getting their protein requirements solely from plants must be extremely careful to combine foods properly. Legumes and grains are high in protein, but generally lacking in some amino acids--which is why so many traditional cusines (Mexican, Chinese, Indian, etc) serve beans and grains together. (Some green vegetables have fairly complete proteins, but you'd have to eat dozens of pounds to get your daily allowance.)

2) Many of us guy types are trying to lower the amount of iron we carry in our bodies, not increase it.

3) Calcium from some plant sources is extremely poorly absorbed. Spinach, for example, which is touted as having high levels of calcium, contains considerable calcium, but the body typically absorbs 5% or less.

4) Which plants are good sources of Vitamin D? The Vegetarian Society itself states:

Vitamin D
Vitamin D is present in oily fish, eggs and dairy products in variable amounts. It is not found in plant foods. However, vegans can obtain vitamin D from vegetable margarines*, some soya milks and certain other foods which are fortified with the vitamin.

*[an excellent source of deadly trans-fats.]

5) Apart from trans-fats, which are usually from vegetable oils, there is no good evidence that fat is "artery-clogging," though this is a common belief.

6) Who cares what "people everywhere recognize"?

The American Dietetic Association states, "Well-planned vegan diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including during pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence."

The fact that the American Dietetic Association states something automatically makes me disbelieve it. If they told me the sun would rise tomorrow, I'd assume that tomorrow was going to be very dark. I put more faith in my daily horoscope in the newspaper.

[Gaelen]

Please don't feed the trolls, kittens - it only encourages them. ;)

[S Bear]

Please don't feed the trolls, kittens - it only encourages them. ;)

Sigh.

Sorry. Sometimes I just can't control myself...

Think of it as Billy-Goat-Gruff Syndrome.

[henrypilarski]

There is pretty much no way that you can get all of your amino acids being a vegetarian. Most people don't realize this but it was told to me years ago by my doctor who isn't a specialist in that field however being a doctor for over 30 years I did take his advice. I have thrown in occasional meat (not red meat) into my diet in order to supplement my amino acid intake.

[Gaelen]

Hi, Henry. The fact that the advice came from a doc who 'isn't a specialist in the field' speaks volumes. ;) Doctors get all of two or three hours of nutrition and nutrional biochemistry in medical school, if that.

Vegans, who eat no animal products whatsoever, need to supplement Vitamin B12, which they can't get from any food.

Vegetarians, who often eat some form of animal protein (eggs and dairy, if they're ovo-lacto), can easily get both vitamin B12, and all of the protein and amino acids they need - if they are careful with their diets and they know what they're doing. Cheese-pizza-and-french-fries vegetarians (i.e., kids who adopt vegetarianism in high school because it's 'the thing' or because they see a celebrity doing it) often don't take the time to figure out how to do vegetarianism correctly, and they are the ones most likely to be protein, amino acid and vitamin deficient.

Hope that helps.

[S Bear]

A number of years back, some researchers were trying to figure out why some lifelong vegans in India never became B12 deficient, since it seemed contrary to reason.

Turned out that the grain supply was so contaminated with various kinds of insects that many people were getting all the B12 they needed from crunchy little bug parts.

So, there's an alternative for vegans...if they don't class bugs as animals...

[Gaelen]

Yeah - insects do kind of tread that thin line for those who define their diets as including 'nothing with a face.' I saw the movie Ants, and can't ever say *that* again. ;)

[mcsblues]

And even if you don't eat them, modern farming methods especially kill or displace (which amounts to much the same thing) a lot of 'bugs' and also animals a bit bigger than bugs ... with faces!;)

[mcsblues]

And it seems to work for her (http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/salma-hayeks-culinary-delights-20100625-z5s1.html?autostart=1)!