Questions On Carb Needs?

[Mike-S]

I am having leg muscle pains and cramping possibly from a lack of carbs (glycogen reserves); I really do hate eating carbs but I'm trying to eat more since (I'm guessing) I think I've pretty well drained my muscle and liver glycogen reserves by eating mostly proteins; I eat something before each time I walk the dog and the muscle pain has decreased some. What does everyone think of carb loading for a time to boost the glycogen reserves and then continue to
eat at a slightly higher level of carbs? Thank You!


http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:RKX1SoEfsMEJ:www.classweb.hs.iastat e.edu/Spring2006/FSHN/FSHN265X/notes/Macronutrients_CHO.pdf+%22glucose+insufficiency%22 +hypoglycemia+OR+hypoglycemic+-fetal&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4&ie=UTF-8


http://tinyurl.com/ltcob


"400 gms of CHO stored as muscle
glycogen (1600 calories)"


"100 gms of CHO stored as liver
glycogen (400 calories)"


Are the above statements correct?


"Certain amino acids stimulate insulin
response"


I believe one of these is arginine, another possibly alanine - are there any others?

Mike

[Missy]

Sounds like more of a potassium problem?

[LisaS]

I don't think you are getting cramping from low glycogen. That doesn't make sense.

1 - you aren't describing that you are exercising hard anaerobically - normal walking and jogging (and even running) should be primarily aerobic and burning fat -- unless you've not been on low CHO long enough for your fatburning capabilities to come up to speed
2 - true cramping sounds like electrolytes or mineral issues - are you getting enough potassium? Are you taking a magnesium supplement? the water loss with low carb, esp at first, can deplete you a little. Are you also on any diuretics?
3 - general muscle pain - are you on any statins?

[Gaelen]

Mike-S, not having any idea of your typical carb intake, current size/weight, the actual types of activity you're doing and your typical daily menus, it's really hard to say WHAT your problem is...but overall, I'd lean more with LisaS' suggestions/questions than with assuming that you'd depleted your glycogen reserves. Why not post a couple days' worth of typical menus; there might be some pointers for further investigation there.

[Mike-S]

Thank you for the replies; I'm combining all responses into one post.

I do have an electrolyte problem and take a potassium citrate supplement (99mg potassium) a few times each week or as necessary; the cramping seems to occur when I eat salty foods (sodium - potassium imbalance?).

My exercise right now comes from walking the dog; I plan on doing some light weight lifting whenever the leg pain / cramping stops or eases up a lot; the leg pain probably has nothing to do with weight lifting but I want to wait. I walk as far as the pain allows but not more than a mile because of hypoglycemia; I have to stop walking frequently to let the pain subside, sort of like intermittent claudication symptoms.

I am planning on starting a supplement shortly containing 500mg calcium, 500mg magnesium and 99mg potassium. I drink sufficient water and am not taking a diuretic or and meds / statins. The cramping and leg muscle pain may be two different happenings; the potassium seems to usually eliminate the leg cramps. The muscle pain sometimes comes from even short walking distances, climbing steps, etc. - also from lack of sleep, walking without eating first.


I am eating foods such as salmon, sardines, tilapia, chicken, hard boiled eggs, chili con carne, salad bar veggies with mushrooms and cheese, chicken noodle soup, minestrone soup, and forcing down lima beans, butter beans, etc. I try to eat foods to stabilize blood glucose levels for hypoglycemia; I do not eat fruits, juices, potatoes, peas, etc. Thanks again! Mike

[Mitra]

I get cramping if I don't increase my potassium quite a lot in warmer weather - I usually don't take any these days in the winter, but in hot weather will get cramping during my yoga sessions if I don't have a couple of potassium tablets morning and night (total 4 x 99 mg). I also take Ca/Mg routinely.

Good food sources are green leaves (spinach, beet greens), avocado. Here are nutritiondata's suggestions (http://www.nutritiondata.com/foods-000122000000000000000.html), but bear in mind that they quote potassium per 200 kcals, and I don't suppose you'd eat 200 kcals of baking soda!

[banshee]

Mike, you might want to read the following article:

http://www.ghchealth.com/vitamin-e-tocopherol.html

The Eades' recommend vitamin E mostly for its antioxidant properties, but this article seems to indicate that it's also good for relieving leg pain with walking and other circulatory problems.

Decreased blood clotting and increased tissue oxygenation may also help reduce symptoms of heart and vascular limitations, such as angina pectoris, intermittent claudication (leg pain with walking due to insufficiency of blood and oxygen, for which vitamin E has clearly been helpful), and problems of arterial spasm.
Just another data point to consider... a Google search of "intermittent claudication" might also give you some ideas...

[LisaS]

cauliflower, raw - has 300 mg potassium for 100g portion- and I EASILY eat 300g raw per serving (as garlic mashed cauliflower) - so that's 900mg potassium per delicious 8.4 ECC serving.

and of course, 1 large stalk of celery has 161 mg potassium :D

[lowcarbgirl]

I am having leg muscle pains and cramping possibly from a lack of carbs (glycogen reserves); I really do hate eating carbs but I'm trying to eat more since (I'm guessing) I think I've pretty well drained my muscle and liver glycogen reserves by eating mostly proteins; I eat something before each time I walk the dog and the muscle pain has decreased some. What does everyone think of carb loading for a time to boost the glycogen reserves and then continue to
eat at a slightly higher level of carbs? Thank You!
Mike


There are several things that may be causing your problems but a lack of carbs probably isn't one of them. The body does not have a minimum carb requirement and you don't need them--even for exercise. Glycogen is the conventional wisdom not low carb wisdom. The body can work out quite well on ketones (in fact better!!!).


What you probably need is more potassium, some magnesium (make sure it is a good chelated one) and more water. These will help with the lactic acids in the muscles after working them out. Carbs won't help.

hugs,
Willow

[MinerMomx3]

I started the PP lifestyle not only to lose weight, but to bring down my high fasting blood sugar. I felt great - had lost my cravings for carbs, was eating all my protein, etc. However, I have had a problem - my fasting blood sugar actually went UP, not down. :eek: And the longer the time between dinner and breakfast, the higher my blood sugar went up. My doctor told me that I wasn't eating enough carbs so my liver was kicking out more glucose. Does anyone know anything about this? I can't seem to find information about it in the books by the Eades or on this forum.

Julie

[Mike-S]

Here is a source for definitions pertaining to diabetes but some may apply to your situation - dawn phenomenon or possibly Somogyi effect. For some people eating a snack before bedtime may actually lower overnight fasting blood glucose levels. I sometimes have a hypoglycemic reaction if I awaken within the first 3-4 hours of sleep or even fall asleep on the couch for a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terms_associated_with_diabetes

Mike

[realruth]

That's why it's better to have 5-6 smaller meals throughout the day.

I too get the middle of the night reaction if I haven't had my little snack just before bedtime.
If it's real bad I have to get up and eat something then and there mostly around 2-3 am.
I'm usally good and don't miss the snack but sometimes if we've been out for the evening and late home I'm tired and relaly just want to crash that's when I do the most damage.

[Mayflowers]

I found that if I go too low in my carb intake, I experience depression. According to Dr. Schwarzbein, you should always eat a carb with a protein. She is an endocrinologist so I think she might know her.....information

Dr. Schwarzbein stated that to eat all protein will burn out the adrenals causing all kinds of problems...like perhaps the blood glucose rising as reported.

Sure they say we could survive on all protein, but I think that our ancesteral genes play a part in our health. If our ancestors are eskimos then that shouldn't be a problem. I think some fruit is important for good health, berries are low carb. I like the Paleo diet but it's hard for me to give up all dairy. Lucky for me I love vegetables! I'm not a big fruit lover but I like berries and peaches and necterines.:o

[lowcarbgirl]

I started the PP lifestyle not only to lose weight, but to bring down my high fasting blood sugar. I felt great - had lost my cravings for carbs, was eating all my protein, etc. However, I have had a problem - my fasting blood sugar actually went UP, not down. :eek: And the longer the time between dinner and breakfast, the higher my blood sugar went up. My doctor told me that I wasn't eating enough carbs so my liver was kicking out more glucose. Does anyone know anything about this? I can't seem to find information about it in the books by the Eades or on this forum.

Julie

I believe that the Eades discussed a similar case in PPLP in the Magnesium Miracle chapter. They discussed how a good magnesium supplement helped the individual to not wake up with a high fasting bs (even though low carb).

Hugs,
Willow

[Dennis]

Lowcarbgirl,
ck. out pg.53 of PPLP. I had the same and started 4oz. of dark red wine and also a protein drink or small protein snack and one metformin a bit before bedtime. My BS readings went from around 200 at wakeup in AM to 90's to 100's on wakeup. All this happened inside of two weeks.
let me know what ya think

[LisaS]

for those of us whose PPLP is out on loan - what is on pg 53 and what is "the same" ?

[Dennis]

Lisa,
At the bottom of pg. 53 in PPLP the author talks of the phenomenon of going to sleep with BS well within fasting paramaters and waking up with a much higher reading. It happened with me and sounds like its happening with the low carb girl. He gives advise concerning that. It can really throw a person off because of the obvious confusion it can create.;)
By "the same" I meant the same experience she is having.
Also, If a person is passionate about losing then they will with no problem hunt down and buy the book. That is just as important and helpful to the seeker as the actual program. It costs something and chances are better that they will stick it out.

[LisaS]

thanks for supplying the context for those that don't have handy access to PPLP.

on the other note:
it sounds like you are criticizing me for lending my book out. Since you know nothing of the circumstances that seems a little over the line - just an observation. Not that the comments/ideas themselves aren't valid in some cases -- but there's no reason to publicly chastize me for something you know nothing about.

[lowcarbgirl]

I just want to add this to this thread now. I recently picked up an all natural Burt's Bees product that helps with muscle cramping after exercise. It is called theraputic bath salt. It supposedly works by helping to draw the lactic acids out of the muscle. What I do know is that it is nice after a hard workout, lemon smell and all.

hugs,
Willow